Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Pali] Stefan Karpik article

Expand Messages
  • DC Wijeratna
    Attention: Stefan, Nina   I started with the PTSD. The Foreword of the Dictionary has a lot of information about the origins of Pali. I am sure you have
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 31, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Attention:
      Stefan, Nina
       
      I started with the PTSD. The Foreword of the Dictionary has a lot of
      information about the origins of Pali. I am sure you have access to the
      dictionary (printed). The online version also has the Foreword (See
      under Front Matter). I will give you my opinion on some of the
      statements therein later.
       
      Here I will give you some points from the PTSD entry
      on Paali.
       
      1. a line, row
      This is really the original meaning of 'paali'. Not a
      language. paali is a word coined by the commentators.
       2. a line, norm, thus the canon
      of Buddhist writings; the text of the Pāli Canon, i. e. the original
      text (opp. to the Commentary; thus "pāliyaŋ" is opposed to "aṭṭhakathāyaŋ"
      at Vism 107, 450, etc).
      This is the view of Buddhaghosa (reference) and Rhys Davids following
      him. The Abhidhamma
      pi.taka has never been considered as Buddha-word. Many books in the
      Khuddhaka is of late origin. Last book of the Vinaya had been written
      in Sri Lanka. So where we find the Buddha-word is the five-nikaayas,
      subject to my comment above on the Khuddhaka.
      For me Paali is the Buddha-word. I believe on the
      basis of internal evidence that Buddha-word is  what is attributed to
      the Buddha in the
      suttas. And those words in the Paali suttas are the actual words of the
      Buddha (historical Buddha).  
      3. It is the literary language of the early Buddhists,
      closely related to Māgadhī.
      This statement is not acceptable. There is no such
      thing as 'the literary language of the early Buddhists. Maagadhii means
      the speech of the people of Maghadha.
      4. The word is only found in Commentaries, not in the
      Piṭaka. 

      D. G. D. C. Wijeratna

      ---
      On Sat, 1/30/10, Stefan Karpik <stefankarpik@...>
      wrote:

      D. G. D. C. Wijeratna


      P.S. This is a copy of an e-m I sent around the 30th. For some reason it seems to have not been received as there is no response.
















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Lennart and all, sorry for the interruption, but the Unicode is not showing up. If you can discuss how you had inserted the text, because that would be
      Message 2 of 17 , Feb 1, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Lennart and all,

        sorry for the interruption, but the Unicode is not showing up. If you can discuss how you had inserted the text, because that would be helpful to Frank and myself, who are trying to understand how well supported Unicode is with Yahoo! Groups. Thank you.

        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Lennart L wrote:

        `Ujuṃ janapado rāja, himavantassa passato;
        Dhanavīriyena sampanno, kosalesu [kosalassa (syā. ka.)] niketino.

        ``Ādiccā [ādicco (ka.)] nāma gottena, sākiyā [sākiyo (ka.)] nāma jātiyā;

        Tamhā kulā pabbajitomhi, na kāme abhipatthayaṃ.
      • Bryan Levman
        Hi DC, Yes that might be it. Thanks very much for finding it, Mettā, Bryan ________________________________ From: DC Wijeratna To:
        Message 3 of 17 , Feb 1, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi DC,

          Yes that might be it. Thanks very much for finding it,

          Mettā, Bryan






          ________________________________
          From: DC Wijeratna <dcwijeratna@...>
          To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, January 31, 2010 7:16:39 AM
          Subject: Re: [Pali] Stefan Karpik article


          Attention: Bryan

          "He also says that in "one of the earliest Pali documents he [the Buddha] is represented as calling himself a Kosalan." Does anyone know which document he is referring to?"

          "Again, venerable sir, the Blessed One is noble and I am a noble; the Blessed One is is a Kosalan and I am a Kosalan; ...." MN 89 Dhammacetiya sutta, Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation, p. 733.

          Possibly, RhD refers to the above passage.

          Mettaa

          D. G. D. C. Wijeratna

          --- On Sat, 1/30/10, Bryan Levman <bryan.levman@ yahoo.com> wrote:

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          __________________________________________________________________
          Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bryan Levman
          Thanks very much Lennart, Mettā, Bryan ________________________________ From: Lennart L To: Pali@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, January 31,
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 1, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks very much Lennart, Mettā, Bryan




            ________________________________
            From: Lennart L <lenni_lop@...>
            To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sun, January 31, 2010 3:41:42 PM
            Subject: [Pali] Re: Stefan Karpik article


            Also in the Sutta-Nipata v. 424 talking to king Bimbisara:

            `Ujuṃ janapado rāja, himavantassa passato;
            Dhanavī riyena sampanno, kosalesu [kosalassa (syā. ka.)] niketino.

            ``Ādicc& #257; [ādicco (ka.)] nāma gottena, sākiy&# 257; [sākiyo (ka.)] nāma jātiy&# 257;;

            Tamhā kulā pabbajitomhi, na kāme abhipatthaya& #7747;.

            --- In Pali@yahoogroups. com, DC Wijeratna <dcwijeratna@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > Attention: Bryan
            >
            > "He also says that in "one of the earliest Pali documents he [the Buddha] is represented as calling himself a Kosalan." Does anyone know which document he is referring to?"
            >
            > "Again, venerable sir, the Blessed One is noble and I am a noble; the Blessed One is is a Kosalan and I am a Kosalan; ...." MN 89 Dhammacetiya sutta, Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation, p. 733.
            >
            > Possibly, RhD refers to the above passage.
            >
            > Mettaa
            >
            >
            > D. G. D. C. Wijeratna
            >
            > --- On Sat, 1/30/10, Bryan Levman <bryan.levman@ ...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >





            __________________________________________________________________
            Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

            http://www.flickr.com/gift/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ong Yong Peng
            Dear DC and friends, before we all get too carried away and start dumping the group with chunks of Pali passages, please take note of the following: If unsure
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 1, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear DC and friends,

              before we all get too carried away and start dumping the group with chunks of Pali passages, please take note of the following:

              If unsure whether a Pali passage is in Unicode, please convert to Velthuis before posting to the group.

              Thank you.

              metta,
              Yong Peng.


              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, DC Wijeratna wrote:

               2. a line, norm, thus the canon of Buddhist writings; the text of the Pāli Canon, i. e. the original text (opp. to the Commentary; thus "pāliyaŋ" is opposed to "aṭṭhakathāyaŋ" at Vism 107, 450, etc).
            • Ong Yong Peng
              Dear friends, pardon me. I meant chunks of illegible Pali passages . metta, Yong Peng. ... before we all get too carried away and start dumping the group with
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 1, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear friends,

                pardon me. I meant "chunks of illegible Pali passages".

                metta,
                Yong Peng.

                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ong Yong Peng wrote:

                before we all get too carried away and start dumping the group with chunks of Pali passages, please take note of the following:

                If unsure whether a Pali passage is in Unicode, please convert to Velthuis before posting to the group.

                >  2. a line, norm, thus the canon of Buddhist writings; the text of the Pāli Canon, i. e. the original text (opp. to the Commentary; thus "pāliyaŋ" is opposed to "aṭṭhakathāyaŋ" at Vism 107, 450, etc).
              • DC Wijeratna
                Attention: Yong Peng    2. a line, norm, thus the canon of Buddhist writings; the text of the Pāli Canon, i. e. the original text (opp. to the Commentary;
                Message 7 of 17 , Feb 1, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Attention: Yong Peng
                   
                  " 2. a line, norm, thus the canon of Buddhist writings; the text of the Pāli Canon, i. e. the original text (opp. to the Commentary; thus "pāliyaŋ" is opposed to "aṭṭhakathāyaŋ" at Vism 107, 450, etc).".
                  There are two Paali words here. They are there because it is a quote from the PTSD.
                  ------------------------------
                  "before we all get too carried away and start dumping the group with chunks of Pali passages, please take note of the following:"
                   
                  What 'dumping the group with chunks of Pali passages'. are you referring to?
                  ----------------------------------------
                   


                  D. G. D. C. Wijeratna

                  --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Ong Yong Peng <palismith@...> wrote:





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Nina van Gorkom
                  Dear DC, thanks for your info, Nina. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 17 , Feb 1, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear DC,
                    thanks for your info,
                    Nina.
                    Op 1-feb-2010, om 5:19 heeft DC Wijeratna het volgende geschreven:

                    > Attention:
                    > Stefan, Nina
                    >
                    > I started with the PTSD. The Foreword of the Dictionary has a lot of
                    > information about the origins of Pali.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.