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Re: [Pali] wrong view , levels of

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  • frank
    Thank you Nina and DC, That resolves my questions on magnitudes and flavors of wrong-ness of views. -Frank ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 27, 2010
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      Thank you Nina and DC,
      That resolves my questions on magnitudes and flavors of wrong-ness of
      views.
      -Frank

      On 1/26/2010 7:29 PM, DC Wijeratna wrote:
      >
      > On 1/27/10, frank <fcckuan@... <mailto:fcckuan%40gmail.com>> wrote:
      > >
      > > In reading [M. 22] simile of snake,
      > >
      > > I came across: pa-pakam. dit.t.higatam.
      > > which was translated as "pernicious view". (which arose in the monk
      > > Arittha who misrepresented the Buddha's teaching by claiming that one
      > > could enjoy sensual pleasures without it being an obstacle to the path).
      > >
      > > checking DPR's dictionary, and CST4, I can not discern how that compares
      > > with miccha-ditthi, the usual translation of "wrong view" that occurs
      > > frequently throughout the cannon.
      > >
      > > So on the scale of wrong and harmful views, which is worse, more
      > offensive?
      > > Papakam ditthigatam or miccha-ditthi?
      > >
      > > DPR defines "ditthigatam" as "a belief, a wrong view"
      > > and paapakam as "wicked, sinful".
      > >
      > > Nyanatiloka buddhist dictionary says "ditthigatam" is a theory, such as
      > > "the buddha was free from theory (ditthigatam), for he saw material form
      > > as it really is."
      > >
      > > Based on nyanatiloka's definition, "ditthigatam" used on it's own seems
      > > to have an ethically neutral quality.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      >
      > Di.t.thi is a view, theory, dogma etc.
      >
      > micchaa sammaa, paapaka.m etc are adjcetives that qualify di.t.thi.
      >
      > paapaka.m (evil) as an adjective qualifies di.t.thi. Evil view. This
      > has to do with ethihcs and behaviour.
      >
      > micchaa makes it an 'empty or false' view. This has to do with
      > knowledge and truth.
      >
      > So there is no comparison
      >
      > --
      > Metta is being friendly to everybody
      >
      >



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    • DC Wijeratna
      ... N: It is akusala. It is the same as di.t.thi. There are many kinds of di.t.thi. It also includes wrong practice, such as Arittha had. In another context
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 27, 2010
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        > F: Based on nyanatiloka' s definition, "ditthigatam" used on it's
        > own seems
        > to have an ethically neutral quality.
        ------
        N: It is akusala. It is the same as di.t.thi. There are many kinds of
        di.t.thi. It also includes wrong practice, such as Arittha had.
        In another context di.t.thi represents right view, sammaa di.t.thi.
        Di.t.thi visuddhi.
        -------------------
         
        DC: Di.t.thi by itself is not akusala. It is micchaadi.t.thi that is an akusala according to sammaadi.t.thi sutta of the MN 1.8

        D. G. D. C. Wijeratna

        --- On Wed, 1/27/10, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:


        From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
        Subject: Re: [Pali] wrong view , levels of
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 2:30 AM


         



        Dear Frank,
        Op 26-jan-2010, om 21:21 heeft frank het volgende geschreven:

        > DPR defines "ditthigatam" as "a belief, a wrong view"
        > and paapakam as "wicked, sinful".
        ------
        N: the suffix gata: literally gone, can mean: state or condition.
        In the Mahaa-Raahulovaadas utta: aapo aapogata.m, tejo tejogata.m. The
        state or condition of heat, water. Ven. Bodhi makes it into an
        adjective: watery, fiery, but sometimes we leave it untranslated.
        In the Abhidhamma lobhamuulacitta can be with wrong view or without
        it. The first type: somanassasahagata. m di.t.thigata- sampayutta. m
        asa"nkhaarikam eka.m: accompanied by happy feeling, associated with
        wrong view, unprompted.
        Here we do not translate -gata, it just means wrong view.

        pa-pakam dit.t.higatam, a pernicious view, this translation is all
        right.
        --------
        >
        > F: Nyanatiloka buddhist dictionary says "ditthigatam" is a theory,
        > such as
        > "the buddha was free from theory (ditthigatam) , for he saw material
        > form
        > as it really is."
        -------
        N: In this case it would be wrong theory, or wrong view. A
        speculative opinion that is wrong view.
        --------
        >
        > F: Based on nyanatiloka' s definition, "ditthigatam" used on it's
        > own seems
        > to have an ethically neutral quality.
        ------
        N: It is akusala. It is the same as di.t.thi. There are many kinds of
        di.t.thi. It also includes wrong practice, such as Arittha had.
        In another context di.t.thi represents right view, sammaa di.t.thi.
        Di.t.thi visuddhi.

        --------
        Nina.

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      • Nina van Gorkom
        Dear DC, ... N: It depends on the context. The term micchaa is not always added to di.t.thi. Nor is the term sammaa always added to di.t.thi. Nina. [Non-text
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 30, 2010
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          Dear DC,

          Op 27-jan-2010, om 19:00 heeft DC Wijeratna het volgende geschreven:

          > DC: Di.t.thi by itself is not akusala. It is micchaadi.t.thi that
          > is an akusala according to sammaadi.t.thi sutta of the MN 1.8
          --------
          N: It depends on the context. The term micchaa is not always added to
          di.t.thi. Nor is the term sammaa always added to di.t.thi.
          Nina.



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