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Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe Vinaya Rules?, no 5.

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  • ashinpan
    Dear Nina, ... The idea of carrot or stick helps to a certain extent. If a person is even not afraid of a stick, well, no one can help him. ... I don t mean
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
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      Dear Nina,

      You wrote:
      > N: As to satipa.t.thaana, it would not be possible to enforce this.
      > The aim is to see anattaa, no person or self who can beforced, since
      > whatever arises is dependent on conditions.
      > From your paper I see that you are concerned about the order of
      > monks, while you wrote: <if the monastic code can be maintained free
      > from the whims and fancies of the Order, at least a minority of good
      > monks would be able to follow it and get benefits even if the
      > majority is corrupt beyond all repair.>
      > Not sure whether the idea of carrot or stick helps.

      The idea of carrot or stick helps to a certain extent. If a person is even not afraid of a stick, well, no one can help him.

      > I am inclined to see the unity of the teaching of the Tipi.taka and would not separate the teaching of Vinaya as being different, with a different approach.

      I don't mean that Sutta and Vinaya Pi.takas contradict each other, rather they complement each other. Let us take, for example, a meditation centre. The meditation instructor may be always emitting kindness and patience but he may need to complement his kindness with strict rules and regulations so that meditation retreats can run smoothly. It is the same case here.

      > Doing good deeds, restraint from bad deeds, I think that one has to
      > know and be aware of the different cittas that arise in a day and
      > motivate deeds. Lobha comes in disguise; it seems we are doing good, but how many akusala cittas arise without being noticed. The clinging to self is in the way all the time.

      I agree. However, the basic principle of Vinaya is "Manodvaare aapatti naama natthi" (there is no offence in the mind-door). And someone who has studied Abhidhamma systematically at least can judge his or her own deeds as good or bad, at least at the physical or verbal levels, if not at the mental level.

      > The monk who has become a sotaapanna has eradicated the wrong view of
      > self and he cannot return to worldly life.
      >
      > We read in the Kindred Sayings (V, Mahå-vagga, Book I, Ch VI, § 12,
      > The river) that the Buddha spoke by way of simile about the monk who
      > will not return to the layman's life; he said that the river Ganges,
      > tending towards the east, cannot be made to change its course and
      > tend towards the west. We read:
      >
      > Just so monks, if the råjah's royal ministers or his friends or boon
      > companions or kinsmen or blood relatives were to come to a monk who
      > is cultivating and making much of the ariyan eightfold way, and were
      > to seek to entice him with wealth, saying: "Come, good man! Why
      > should these yellow robes torment you? Why parade about with shaven
      > crown and bowl? Come! Return to the lower life and enjoy possessions
      > and do deeds of merit"— for that monk so cultivating and making much
      > of the ariyan way, return to the lower life is impossible. Why so?
      > Because, monks, that monk's heart has for many a long day been bent
      > on detachment, inclined to detachment, turned towards detachment, so
      > that there is no possibility for him to return to the lower life...
      > -----------------

      Actually it is a controversial matter in Burma. I am not familiar enough with suttas to give any considered opinion but at least I know that Mahasi Sayadaw believed sotapanna monks may still return to worldly life. I don't know the doctrinal basis of his opinion.

      with metta

      Ven. Pandita
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Venerable Pandita, ... N: This is clear. Thank you for all your observations and your patience answering all these mails. With respect, Nina. [Non-text
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
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        Venerable Pandita,

        Op 5-jan-2010, om 15:14 heeft ashinpan het volgende geschreven:

        > The idea of carrot or stick helps to a certain extent. If a person
        > is even not afraid of a stick, well, no one can help him.
        ------
        N: This is clear. Thank you for all your observations and your
        patience answering all these mails.

        With respect,

        Nina.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • frank
        Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than that, but it s probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M 152] that I
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
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          Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
          that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
          152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
          Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
          search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
          "empty hut" in DPR results in:
          Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
          <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
          <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
          <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
          <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
          <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
          <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
          <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0

          The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
          repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
          page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
          and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
          found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
          discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...

          -Frank


          On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
          >
          > Your search results:
          >
          > 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave,
          > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave,
          > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
          >
          > 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave,
          > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
          > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
          > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
          > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
          > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
          >
          > 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
          > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
          >
          > 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda mā
          > pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
          >
          > 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa
          > rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
          >
          > 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
          > Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
          >
          > 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
          > upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
          >
          > 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda,
          > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
          >
          > Rosa
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
          > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
          > Behalf Of frank
          > Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
          > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
          > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
          > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
          >
          > on compulsory meditation:
          > I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
          > unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
          > Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
          > reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
          > samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
          > empty hut, do jhana monks...":
          >
          > (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
          > yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
          > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
          > <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
          > <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
          > <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
          > <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
          > <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
          > <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
          > <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
          > <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
          > tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
          > <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
          > <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
          > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
          > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
          > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
          > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
          > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
          > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
          > <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
          > <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
          > <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
          > <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
          > vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
          > <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
          > <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
          > amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
          > <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
          > <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
          >
          > This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
          > mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
          > enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
          > jhana monks... " phrase.
          > I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
          > we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
          > dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
          > really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
          > people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
          > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
          > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
          > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
          > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
          > it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
          >
          > -Frank
          >
          > On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Dear Nina,
          > >
          > > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
          > >
          > > You wrote:
          > >
          > > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
          > > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
          > > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
          > > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
          > > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
          > > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
          > > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
          > > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
          > > > and the Community,
          > > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
          > > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
          > > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
          > > >
          > > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
          > > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
          > > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
          > > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
          > > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
          > > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
          > > > with branches...>
          > > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
          > > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
          > > > impatience and intolerance.
          > > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
          > > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
          > > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
          > > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
          > > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
          > > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
          > > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
          > > >
          > > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
          > > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
          > > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
          > > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
          > > > for laypeople:
          > > >
          > > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
          > > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
          > > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
          > > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
          > > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
          > > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
          > >
          > > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
          > > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
          > > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
          > > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
          > > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
          > > or else".
          > >
          > > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
          > > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
          > > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
          > > meditation compulsory for monks.
          > >
          > > with metta
          > >
          > > Ven. Pandita
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • frank
          Ok, there are at least 4 confirmed occurences in Majjima Nikaya of the phrase, Here is a foot of a tree, an empty hut, [monks], you better practice jhana or
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Ok, there are at least 4 confirmed occurences in Majjima Nikaya of the
            phrase, "Here is a foot of a tree, an empty hut, [monks], you better
            practice jhana or you will deeply regret it later...."

            Majjhima occurrences: 152, 106, 19, 8, [ m8.nypo
            <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.008.nypo.html> ], [
            m19.than
            <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html> ], [
            m106.than
            <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.106.than.html> ], [
            m.152.than
            <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.152.than.html> ]

            M152 is one of my all time favorite suttas. M8 and M19 I've also re-read
            with disproportionate frequency, which is why in my mind I have the
            impression the phrase "practice jhana" is much more frequent than 4
            occurrences out of 152 in Majjhima. I loooooove M152. I really love
            m152. I can not express in ascii how much I love that sutta. It
            describes what behavior and accomplishment we strive for in practicing
            the buddha's path. I'm cutting and pasting an excerpt from Thanissaro's
            translation:
            "And how is one a noble one with developed faculties?
            There is the case where, when seeing a form with the eye, there arises
            in a monk what is agreeable, what is disagreeable, what is agreeable &
            disagreeable.
            If he wants, he remains percipient of loathsomeness in the presence of
            what is not loathsome.
            If he wants, he remains percipient of unloathsomeness in the presence of
            what is loathsome.
            If he wants, he remains percipient of loathsomeness in the presence of
            what is not loathsome & what is.
            If he wants, he remains percipient of unloathsomeness in the presence of
            what is loathsome & what is not.
            If he wants — in the presence of what is loathsome & what is not —
            cutting himself off from both, he remains equanimous, alert, & mindful.
            ----------------------------------------------------------
            my comments: How beautiful is that? To abide in peace, freedom,
            fearlessness, under any and every circumstance that life can throw at
            you. I can totally understand the sentiment of Buddhists who have the
            desire to just bow to the triple gem for the rest of their life, I mean
            physically bow and prostrate again and again, forgoing eating, sleeping,
            etc... There's just no way fully express or capture how beautiful,
            profound, effective the dhamma is.
            -Frank










            On 1/5/2010 8:26 AM, frank wrote:
            > Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent
            > than that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such
            > as [M 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that
            > impression. Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a
            > much wider search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest
            > search for "empty hut" in DPR results in:
            > Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
            > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
            > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
            > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
            > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
            > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
            > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
            > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
            >
            > The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
            > repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the
            > ending page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version)
            > yesterday, and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search
            > results below found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to
            > look into that discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later
            > today or tomorrow...
            >
            > -Frank
            >
            >
            > On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
            >>
            >> Your search results:
            >>
            >> 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave,
            >> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhave mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhu, mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
            >> bhikkhu, mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda
            >> mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615.
            >> Sa rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
            >> Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
            >> upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda,
            >> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
            >>
            >> Rosa
            >>
            >> _____
            >>
            >> From: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
            >> Behalf Of frank
            >> Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
            >> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
            >> jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
            >> Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
            >>
            >> on compulsory meditation:
            >> I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
            >> unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
            >> Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
            >> reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
            >> samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
            >> empty hut, do jhana monks...":
            >>
            >> (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
            >> yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
            >> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
            >> <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
            >> <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
            >> <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
            >> <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
            >> <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
            >> <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
            >> <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
            >> <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
            >> tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
            >> <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
            >> <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
            >> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
            >> <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
            >> <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
            >> <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
            >> <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
            >> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
            >> <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
            >> <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
            >> <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
            >> <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
            >> vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
            >> <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
            >> <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
            >> amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
            >> <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
            >> <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
            >>
            >> This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
            >> mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
            >> enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
            >> jhana monks... " phrase.
            >> I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
            >> we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
            >> dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
            >> really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
            >> people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
            >> <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
            >> <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
            >> <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
            >> <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
            >> it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
            >>
            >> -Frank
            >>
            >> On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > Dear Nina,
            >> >
            >> > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
            >> >
            >> > You wrote:
            >> >
            >> > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
            >> > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
            >> > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
            >> > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
            >> > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
            >> > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
            >> > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
            >> > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
            >> > > and the Community,
            >> > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
            >> > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
            >> > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
            >> > >
            >> > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
            >> > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
            >> > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
            >> > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
            >> > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
            >> > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
            >> > > with branches...>
            >> > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
            >> > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
            >> > > impatience and intolerance.
            >> > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
            >> > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
            >> > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
            >> > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
            >> > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
            >> > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
            >> > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
            >> > >
            >> > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
            >> > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
            >> > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
            >> > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
            >> > > for laypeople:
            >> > >
            >> > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
            >> > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
            >> > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
            >> > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
            >> > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
            >> > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
            >> >
            >> > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
            >> > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
            >> > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
            >> > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
            >> > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
            >> > or else".
            >> >
            >> > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
            >> > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
            >> > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
            >> > meditation compulsory for monks.
            >> >
            >> > with metta
            >> >
            >> > Ven. Pandita
            >> >
            >> >
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rosa Grau gmail
            Frank, I searched for jāyatha, maybe that explains the discrepancies. I can do another search if necessary. What is DPR, by the way? Rosa _____ From:
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Frank,



              I searched for jāyatha, maybe that explains the discrepancies. I can do another search if necessary. What is DPR, by the way?



              Rosa





              _____

              From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frank
              Sent: dimarts, 5 / gener / 2010 17:27
              To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe Vinaya Rules?, no 5.





              Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
              that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
              152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
              Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
              search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
              "empty hut" in DPR results in:
              Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0

              The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
              repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
              page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
              and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
              found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
              discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...

              -Frank

              On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
              >
              > Your search results:
              >
              > 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave,
              > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave,
              > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
              >
              > 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave,
              > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
              > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
              > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
              > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
              >
              > 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
              > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
              >
              > 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda mā
              > pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
              >
              > 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa
              > rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
              > Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
              >
              > 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
              > upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
              >
              > 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda,
              > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
              >
              > Rosa
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
              > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
              > Behalf Of frank
              > Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
              > To: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
              > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
              > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
              >
              > on compulsory meditation:
              > I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
              > unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
              > Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
              > reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
              > samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
              > empty hut, do jhana monks...":
              >
              > (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
              > yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
              > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
              > <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
              > <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
              > <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
              > <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
              > <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
              > <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
              > <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
              > <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
              > tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
              > <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
              > <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
              > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
              > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
              > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
              > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
              > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
              > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
              > <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
              > <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
              > <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
              > <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
              > vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
              > <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
              > <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
              > amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
              > <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
              > <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
              >
              > This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
              > mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
              > enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
              > jhana monks... " phrase.
              > I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
              > we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
              > dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
              > really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
              > people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
              > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
              > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
              > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
              > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
              > it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
              >
              > -Frank
              >
              > On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Dear Nina,
              > >
              > > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
              > >
              > > You wrote:
              > >
              > > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
              > > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
              > > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
              > > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
              > > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
              > > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
              > > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
              > > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
              > > > and the Community,
              > > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
              > > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
              > > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
              > > >
              > > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
              > > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
              > > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
              > > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
              > > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
              > > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
              > > > with branches...>
              > > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
              > > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
              > > > impatience and intolerance.
              > > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
              > > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
              > > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
              > > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
              > > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
              > > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
              > > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
              > > >
              > > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
              > > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
              > > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
              > > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
              > > > for laypeople:
              > > >
              > > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
              > > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
              > > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
              > > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
              > > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
              > > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
              > >
              > > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
              > > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
              > > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
              > > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
              > > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
              > > or else".
              > >
              > > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
              > > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
              > > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
              > > meditation compulsory for monks.
              > >
              > > with metta
              > >
              > > Ven. Pandita
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • grasje
              Dear Frank, empty hut appears in the satipatthana sutta as well, then as su~n~naagaaragato. In the MN this word appears 7 times. If I skip the ending ato ,
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
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                Dear Frank,

                "empty hut" appears in the satipatthana sutta as well, then as su~n~naagaaragato. In the MN this word appears 7 times.
                If I skip the ending "ato", DPR finds suññāgāragatāpi (2) and su~n~naagaaragatopi (1) as well
                In all situations the word is preceded by "foot of a tree".

                The SN rends suññāgāragatānaṃ (1) and su~n~naagaaragato (15)

                There might be other flexions that I am not aware of. This is as far as my Pali goes.

                The -pe- repeats are not written out as complete text in the DPR, as far as I know, so you might want to check those in an other way. If you can do that on the plain pali text, here is how you can get it all in your wordprocessor:

                The whole SN is in 5 files on your computer. The files are in the directory
                Program files\DPR\DPR\xml\s1m.xml ; S2m ---S5m. The S1a files are the commentaries.
                If you want to open the files directly it is better first to make a copy and save that copy in another directory. DPR will refuse to read files that have been saved by a normal wordprocessor. You can open the copy in a standard wordprocessor as long as you won't try to use the same file in your browser afterwards. The wordprocessor will process all the HTML-code and convert it to quite readable Velthuis, but still mixed with some stuff I don't understand.

                BTW the directory DPPN contains the dictionary of pali proper names.
                CSS contains the layout of the pages, etc contains the dictionaries, images contains images and js contains javascript, the actions happening when you click on one of the buttons. XML contains the tipitaka and the commentaries.

                Kind regards,

                Ria Glas


                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, frank <fcckuan@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
                > that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
                > 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
                > Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
                > search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
                > "empty hut" in DPR results in:
                > Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
                >
                > The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
                > repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
                > page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
                > and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
                > found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
                > discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...
                >
                > -Frank
                >
                >
                >
              • frank
                Thanks for the input Ria. I ll have to learn more about flexions and Pali rules before I can confidently enter better search strings. -Frank ... [Non-text
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 6, 2010
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                  Thanks for the input Ria.
                  I'll have to learn more about flexions and Pali rules before I can
                  confidently enter better search strings.
                  -Frank

                  On 1/5/2010 1:08 PM, grasje wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Dear Frank,
                  >
                  > "empty hut" appears in the satipatthana sutta as well, then as
                  > su~n~naagaaragato. In the MN this word appears 7 times.
                  > If I skip the ending "ato", DPR finds suññÄ?gÄ?ragatÄ?pi (2) and
                  > su~n~naagaaragatopi (1) as well
                  > In all situations the word is preceded by "foot of a tree".
                  >
                  > The SN rends suññÄ?gÄ?ragatÄ?naá¹f (1) and su~n~naagaaragato (15)
                  >
                  > There might be other flexions that I am not aware of. This is as far
                  > as my Pali goes.
                  >
                  > The -pe- repeats are not written out as complete text in the DPR, as
                  > far as I know, so you might want to check those in an other way. If
                  > you can do that on the plain pali text, here is how you can get it all
                  > in your wordprocessor:
                  >
                  > The whole SN is in 5 files on your computer. The files are in the
                  > directory
                  > Program files\DPR\DPR\xml\s1m.xml ; S2m ---S5m. The S1a files are the
                  > commentaries.
                  > If you want to open the files directly it is better first to make a
                  > copy and save that copy in another directory. DPR will refuse to read
                  > files that have been saved by a normal wordprocessor. You can open the
                  > copy in a standard wordprocessor as long as you won't try to use the
                  > same file in your browser afterwards. The wordprocessor will process
                  > all the HTML-code and convert it to quite readable Velthuis, but still
                  > mixed with some stuff I don't understand.
                  >
                  > BTW the directory DPPN contains the dictionary of pali proper names.
                  > CSS contains the layout of the pages, etc contains the dictionaries,
                  > images contains images and js contains javascript, the actions
                  > happening when you click on one of the buttons. XML contains the
                  > tipitaka and the commentaries.
                  >
                  > Kind regards,
                  >
                  > Ria Glas
                  >
                  > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, frank
                  > <fcckuan@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent
                  > than
                  > > that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
                  > > 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
                  > > Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
                  > > search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
                  > > "empty hut" in DPR results in:
                  > > Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
                  > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
                  > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
                  > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
                  > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
                  > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
                  > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
                  > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
                  > >
                  > > The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
                  > > repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
                  > > page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
                  > > and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
                  > > found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
                  > > discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or
                  > tomorrow...
                  > >
                  > > -Frank
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • frank
                  Hi Rosa, DPR = digital pali reader, which is a must have. you can get it from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/ Really fantastic work they did
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 6, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Rosa, DPR = digital pali reader, which is a must have. you can get it
                    from here:
                    http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/

                    Really fantastic work they did on that project. Huge time saver, space
                    saver, etc...

                    Which program and pali canon did you use to produce the search that
                    resulted in about 68 finds of the phrase

                    “What should be done for his disciples out of compassion by a Teacher
                    who seeks their welfare and has compassion for them,
                    that I have done for you, Ananda.
                    There are these roots of trees,
                    these empty huts.
                    Meditate, Ananda,
                    do not delay,
                    or else you will regret it later.
                    This is our instruction to you.”


                    -Frank






                    On 1/5/2010 10:42 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
                    >
                    > Frank,
                    >
                    > I searched for jāyatha, maybe that explains the discrepancies. I can
                    > do another search if necessary. What is DPR, by the way?
                    >
                    > Rosa
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                    > Behalf Of frank
                    > Sent: dimarts, 5 / gener / 2010 17:27
                    > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
                    > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
                    > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
                    >
                    > Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
                    > that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
                    > 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
                    > Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
                    > search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
                    > "empty hut" in DPR results in:
                    > Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
                    >
                    > The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
                    > repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
                    > page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
                    > and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
                    > found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
                    > discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...
                    >
                    > -Frank
                    >
                    > On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Your search results:
                    > >
                    > > 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                    > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                    > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                    > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                    > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
                    > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
                    > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
                    > > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
                    > > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda mā
                    > > pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa
                    > > rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
                    > > Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
                    > > upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda,
                    > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
                    > >
                    > > Rosa
                    > >
                    > > _____
                    > >
                    > > From: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                    > <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                    > <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                    > > Behalf Of frank
                    > > Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
                    > > To: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                    > <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
                    > > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
                    > > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
                    > >
                    > > on compulsory meditation:
                    > > I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
                    > > unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
                    > > Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
                    > > reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
                    > > samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
                    > > empty hut, do jhana monks...":
                    > >
                    > > (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
                    > > yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
                    > > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
                    > > <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
                    > > <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
                    > > <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
                    > > <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
                    > > <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
                    > > <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
                    > > <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
                    > > <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
                    > > tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
                    > > <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
                    > > <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
                    > > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
                    > > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
                    > > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
                    > > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
                    > > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
                    > > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
                    > > <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
                    > > <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
                    > > <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
                    > > <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
                    > > vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
                    > > <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
                    > > <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
                    > > amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
                    > > <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
                    > > <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
                    > >
                    > > This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
                    > > mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
                    > > enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
                    > > jhana monks... " phrase.
                    > > I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
                    > > we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
                    > > dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
                    > > really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
                    > > people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
                    > > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
                    > > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
                    > > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
                    > > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
                    > > it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
                    > >
                    > > -Frank
                    > >
                    > > On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Dear Nina,
                    > > >
                    > > > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
                    > > >
                    > > > You wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
                    > > > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
                    > > > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
                    > > > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of
                    > confidence
                    > > > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
                    > > > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
                    > > > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
                    > > > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
                    > > > > and the Community,
                    > > > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
                    > > > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
                    > > > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
                    > > > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
                    > > > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
                    > > > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be
                    > undertaken
                    > > > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of
                    > Patimokkha
                    > > > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
                    > > > > with branches...>
                    > > > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is
                    > bound
                    > > > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
                    > > > > impatience and intolerance.
                    > > > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
                    > > > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
                    > > > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of
                    > mindfulness
                    > > > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
                    > > > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
                    > > > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
                    > > > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
                    > > > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
                    > > > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
                    > > > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also
                    > beneficial
                    > > > > for laypeople:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the
                    > realization
                    > > > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and
                    > mental,
                    > > > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
                    > > > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
                    > > > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long
                    > may the
                    > > > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
                    > > >
                    > > > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
                    > > > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
                    > > > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
                    > > > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
                    > > > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
                    > > > or else".
                    > > >
                    > > > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
                    > > > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
                    > > > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
                    > > > meditation compulsory for monks.
                    > > >
                    > > > with metta
                    > > >
                    > > > Ven. Pandita
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Rosa Grau gmail
                    Hi Frank, I normally use the pali_tipitaka_utf8 file downloadable from www.buddhistethics.org . I will install it and see if
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 6, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Frank,



                      I normally use the pali_tipitaka_utf8 file downloadable from www.buddhistethics.org <http://www.buddhistethics.org/> . I will install it and see if there any advantages in using DPR. I would be grateful to know of any available resources, as very soon I am planning to do my MA in Lexicography research based on the Pali Canon, and I have to say that having studied Pali for one year I consider myself a beginner compared to the highly knowledgeable people in this group.

                      I used AntConc - a program used in corpus linguistics - to produce the search. If you’re interested just google AntConc and you will find it first on the list.



                      Rosa



                      _____

                      From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frank
                      Sent: dimecres, 6 / gener / 2010 17:50
                      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe Vinaya Rules?, no 5.





                      Hi Rosa, DPR = digital pali reader, which is a must have. you can get it
                      from here:
                      http://sourceforge. <http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/> net/projects/digitalpali/

                      Really fantastic work they did on that project. Huge time saver, space
                      saver, etc...

                      Which program and pali canon did you use to produce the search that
                      resulted in about 68 finds of the phrase

                      “What should be done for his disciples out of compassion by a Teacher
                      who seeks their welfare and has compassion for them,
                      that I have done for you, Ananda.
                      There are these roots of trees,
                      these empty huts.
                      Meditate, Ananda,
                      do not delay,
                      or else you will regret it later.
                      This is our instruction to you.”

                      -Frank

                      On 1/5/2010 10:42 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
                      >
                      > Frank,
                      >
                      > I searched for jāyatha, maybe that explains the discrepancies. I can
                      > do another search if necessary. What is DPR, by the way?
                      >
                      > Rosa
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                      > Behalf Of frank
                      > Sent: dimarts, 5 / gener / 2010 17:27
                      > To: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
                      > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
                      > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
                      >
                      > Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
                      > that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
                      > 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
                      > Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
                      > search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
                      > "empty hut" in DPR results in:
                      > Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
                      > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
                      > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
                      > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
                      > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
                      > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
                      > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
                      > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
                      >
                      > The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
                      > repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
                      > page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
                      > and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
                      > found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
                      > discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...
                      >
                      > -Frank
                      >
                      > On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Your search results:
                      > >
                      > > 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                      > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                      > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                      > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                      > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
                      > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
                      > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
                      > > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
                      > > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda mā
                      > > pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa
                      > > rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
                      > > Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
                      > > upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda,
                      > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
                      > >
                      > > Rosa
                      > >
                      > > _____
                      > >
                      > > From: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                      > <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                      > <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                      > > Behalf Of frank
                      > > Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
                      > > To: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                      > <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
                      > > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
                      > > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
                      > >
                      > > on compulsory meditation:
                      > > I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
                      > > unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
                      > > Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
                      > > reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
                      > > samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
                      > > empty hut, do jhana monks...":
                      > >
                      > > (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
                      > > yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
                      > > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
                      > > <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
                      > > <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
                      > > <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
                      > > <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
                      > > <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
                      > > <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
                      > > <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
                      > > <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
                      > > tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
                      > > <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
                      > > <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
                      > > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
                      > > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
                      > > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
                      > > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
                      > > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
                      > > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
                      > > <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
                      > > <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
                      > > <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
                      > > <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
                      > > vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
                      > > <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
                      > > <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
                      > > amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
                      > > <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
                      > > <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
                      > >
                      > > This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
                      > > mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
                      > > enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
                      > > jhana monks... " phrase.
                      > > I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
                      > > we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
                      > > dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
                      > > really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
                      > > people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
                      > > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
                      > > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
                      > > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
                      > > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
                      > > it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
                      > >
                      > > -Frank
                      > >
                      > > On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Dear Nina,
                      > > >
                      > > > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
                      > > >
                      > > > You wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
                      > > > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
                      > > > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
                      > > > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of
                      > confidence
                      > > > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
                      > > > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
                      > > > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
                      > > > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
                      > > > > and the Community,
                      > > > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
                      > > > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
                      > > > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
                      > > > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
                      > > > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
                      > > > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be
                      > undertaken
                      > > > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of
                      > Patimokkha
                      > > > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
                      > > > > with branches...>
                      > > > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is
                      > bound
                      > > > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
                      > > > > impatience and intolerance.
                      > > > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
                      > > > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
                      > > > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of
                      > mindfulness
                      > > > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
                      > > > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
                      > > > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
                      > > > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
                      > > > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
                      > > > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
                      > > > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also
                      > beneficial
                      > > > > for laypeople:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the
                      > realization
                      > > > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and
                      > mental,
                      > > > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
                      > > > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
                      > > > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long
                      > may the
                      > > > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
                      > > >
                      > > > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
                      > > > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
                      > > > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
                      > > > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
                      > > > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
                      > > > or else".
                      > > >
                      > > > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
                      > > > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
                      > > > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
                      > > > meditation compulsory for monks.
                      > > >
                      > > > with metta
                      > > >
                      > > > Ven. Pandita
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
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                      > >
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                      > >
                      > >
                      >
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                      >
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                      >
                      >

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