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RE: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe Vinaya Rules?, no 5.

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  • Rosa Grau gmail
    Your search results: 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
      Your search results:





      1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt

      2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt

      3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt

      4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt

      62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu, mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt

      63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu, mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt

      64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt

      65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt

      66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3. Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt

      67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt

      68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt





      Rosa



      _____

      From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frank
      Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe Vinaya Rules?, no 5.





      on compulsory meditation:
      I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
      unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
      Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
      reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
      samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
      empty hut, do jhana monks...":

      (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
      yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
      <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
      <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
      <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
      <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
      <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
      <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
      <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
      <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
      <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
      tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
      <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
      <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
      <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
      <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
      <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
      <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
      <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
      <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
      <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
      <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
      <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
      <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
      vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
      <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
      <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
      amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
      <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
      <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>

      This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
      mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
      enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
      jhana monks... " phrase.
      I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
      we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
      dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
      really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
      people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
      <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
      <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
      <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
      <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
      it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.

      -Frank

      On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
      >
      >
      > Dear Nina,
      >
      > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
      >
      > You wrote:
      >
      > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
      > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
      > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
      > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
      > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
      > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
      > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
      > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
      > > and the Community,
      > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
      > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
      > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
      > >
      > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
      > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
      > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
      > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
      > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
      > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
      > > with branches...>
      > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
      > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
      > > impatience and intolerance.
      > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
      > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
      > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
      > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
      > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
      > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
      > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
      > >
      > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
      > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
      > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
      > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
      > > for laypeople:
      > >
      > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
      > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
      > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
      > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
      > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
      > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
      >
      > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
      > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
      > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
      > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
      > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
      > or else".
      >
      > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
      > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
      > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
      > meditation compulsory for monks.
      >
      > with metta
      >
      > Ven. Pandita
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Venerable Pandita, ... N: As to satipa.t.thaana, it would not be possible to enforce this. The aim is to see anattaa, no person or self who can beforced, since
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
        Venerable Pandita,
        Op 4-jan-2010, om 12:14 heeft ashinpan het volgende geschreven:

        > All the sources you have quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where
        > we can meet the Buddha as a guide, as a patient teacher. However,
        > in Vinaya we see the Buddha as an enforcer of law who practiced the
        > policy of "carrot or stick". All Paatimokkha precepts, for example,
        > are in the format of "Don't do this or else".
        >
        > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
        > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to
        > force monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not
        > made meditation compulsory for monks.
        --------
        N: As to satipa.t.thaana, it would not be possible to enforce this.
        The aim is to see anattaa, no person or self who can beforced, since
        whatever arises is dependent on conditions.
        From your paper I see that you are concerned about the order of
        monks, while you wrote: <if the monastic code can be maintained free
        from the whims and fancies of the Order, at least a minority of good
        monks would be able to follow it and get benefits even if the
        majority is corrupt beyond all repair.>
        Not sure whether the idea of carrot or stick helps. I am inclined to
        see the unity of the teaching of the Tipi.taka and would not separate
        the teaching of Vinaya as being different, with a different approach.
        You wrote to Lennart: <For us, monkhood will help us to do good deeds
        more easily while make it more difficult for us to do bad deeds. (At
        least it is the common motive for us to become monks.) For that
        privilege, we have to pay a price---we must observe the Vinaya rules. >

        Doing good deeds, restraint from bad deeds, I think that one has to
        know and be aware of the different cittas that arise in a day and
        motivate deeds. Lobha comes in disguise; it seems we are doing good,
        but how many akusala cittas arise without being noticed. The clinging
        to self is in the way all the time.
        The monk who has become a sotaapanna has eradicated the wrong view of
        self and he cannot return to worldly life.

        We read in the Kindred Sayings (V, Mah�-vagga, Book I, Ch VI, � 12,
        The river) that the Buddha spoke by way of simile about the monk who
        will not return to the layman�s life; he said that the river Ganges,
        tending towards the east, cannot be made to change its course and
        tend towards the west. We read:

        Just so monks, if the r�jah�s royal ministers or his friends or boon
        companions or kinsmen or blood relatives were to come to a monk who
        is cultivating and making much of the ariyan eightfold way, and were
        to seek to entice him with wealth, saying: �Come, good man! Why
        should these yellow robes torment you? Why parade about with shaven
        crown and bowl? Come! Return to the lower life and enjoy possessions
        and do deeds of merit�� for that monk so cultivating and making much
        of the ariyan way, return to the lower life is impossible. Why so?
        Because, monks, that monk�s heart has for many a long day been bent
        on detachment, inclined to detachment, turned towards detachment, so
        that there is no possibility for him to return to the lower life...
        -----------------
        Nina.




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ashinpan
        Dear Nina, ... The idea of carrot or stick helps to a certain extent. If a person is even not afraid of a stick, well, no one can help him. ... I don t mean
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
          Dear Nina,

          You wrote:
          > N: As to satipa.t.thaana, it would not be possible to enforce this.
          > The aim is to see anattaa, no person or self who can beforced, since
          > whatever arises is dependent on conditions.
          > From your paper I see that you are concerned about the order of
          > monks, while you wrote: <if the monastic code can be maintained free
          > from the whims and fancies of the Order, at least a minority of good
          > monks would be able to follow it and get benefits even if the
          > majority is corrupt beyond all repair.>
          > Not sure whether the idea of carrot or stick helps.

          The idea of carrot or stick helps to a certain extent. If a person is even not afraid of a stick, well, no one can help him.

          > I am inclined to see the unity of the teaching of the Tipi.taka and would not separate the teaching of Vinaya as being different, with a different approach.

          I don't mean that Sutta and Vinaya Pi.takas contradict each other, rather they complement each other. Let us take, for example, a meditation centre. The meditation instructor may be always emitting kindness and patience but he may need to complement his kindness with strict rules and regulations so that meditation retreats can run smoothly. It is the same case here.

          > Doing good deeds, restraint from bad deeds, I think that one has to
          > know and be aware of the different cittas that arise in a day and
          > motivate deeds. Lobha comes in disguise; it seems we are doing good, but how many akusala cittas arise without being noticed. The clinging to self is in the way all the time.

          I agree. However, the basic principle of Vinaya is "Manodvaare aapatti naama natthi" (there is no offence in the mind-door). And someone who has studied Abhidhamma systematically at least can judge his or her own deeds as good or bad, at least at the physical or verbal levels, if not at the mental level.

          > The monk who has become a sotaapanna has eradicated the wrong view of
          > self and he cannot return to worldly life.
          >
          > We read in the Kindred Sayings (V, Mahå-vagga, Book I, Ch VI, § 12,
          > The river) that the Buddha spoke by way of simile about the monk who
          > will not return to the layman's life; he said that the river Ganges,
          > tending towards the east, cannot be made to change its course and
          > tend towards the west. We read:
          >
          > Just so monks, if the råjah's royal ministers or his friends or boon
          > companions or kinsmen or blood relatives were to come to a monk who
          > is cultivating and making much of the ariyan eightfold way, and were
          > to seek to entice him with wealth, saying: "Come, good man! Why
          > should these yellow robes torment you? Why parade about with shaven
          > crown and bowl? Come! Return to the lower life and enjoy possessions
          > and do deeds of merit"— for that monk so cultivating and making much
          > of the ariyan way, return to the lower life is impossible. Why so?
          > Because, monks, that monk's heart has for many a long day been bent
          > on detachment, inclined to detachment, turned towards detachment, so
          > that there is no possibility for him to return to the lower life...
          > -----------------

          Actually it is a controversial matter in Burma. I am not familiar enough with suttas to give any considered opinion but at least I know that Mahasi Sayadaw believed sotapanna monks may still return to worldly life. I don't know the doctrinal basis of his opinion.

          with metta

          Ven. Pandita
        • Nina van Gorkom
          Venerable Pandita, ... N: This is clear. Thank you for all your observations and your patience answering all these mails. With respect, Nina. [Non-text
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
            Venerable Pandita,

            Op 5-jan-2010, om 15:14 heeft ashinpan het volgende geschreven:

            > The idea of carrot or stick helps to a certain extent. If a person
            > is even not afraid of a stick, well, no one can help him.
            ------
            N: This is clear. Thank you for all your observations and your
            patience answering all these mails.

            With respect,

            Nina.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • frank
            Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than that, but it s probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M 152] that I
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
              Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
              that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
              152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
              Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
              search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
              "empty hut" in DPR results in:
              Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
              <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0

              The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
              repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
              page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
              and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
              found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
              discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...

              -Frank


              On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
              >
              > Your search results:
              >
              > 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave,
              > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave,
              > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
              >
              > 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave,
              > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
              > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
              > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
              > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
              > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
              >
              > 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
              > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
              >
              > 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda mā
              > pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
              >
              > 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa
              > rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
              >
              > 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
              > Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
              >
              > 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
              > upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
              >
              > 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda,
              > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
              >
              > Rosa
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
              > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
              > Behalf Of frank
              > Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
              > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
              > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
              > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
              >
              > on compulsory meditation:
              > I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
              > unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
              > Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
              > reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
              > samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
              > empty hut, do jhana monks...":
              >
              > (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
              > yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
              > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
              > <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
              > <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
              > <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
              > <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
              > <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
              > <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
              > <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
              > <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
              > tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
              > <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
              > <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
              > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
              > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
              > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
              > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
              > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
              > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
              > <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
              > <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
              > <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
              > <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
              > vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
              > <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
              > <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
              > amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
              > <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
              > <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
              >
              > This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
              > mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
              > enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
              > jhana monks... " phrase.
              > I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
              > we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
              > dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
              > really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
              > people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
              > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
              > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
              > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
              > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
              > it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
              >
              > -Frank
              >
              > On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Dear Nina,
              > >
              > > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
              > >
              > > You wrote:
              > >
              > > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
              > > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
              > > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
              > > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
              > > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
              > > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
              > > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
              > > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
              > > > and the Community,
              > > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
              > > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
              > > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
              > > >
              > > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
              > > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
              > > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
              > > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
              > > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
              > > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
              > > > with branches...>
              > > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
              > > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
              > > > impatience and intolerance.
              > > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
              > > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
              > > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
              > > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
              > > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
              > > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
              > > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
              > > >
              > > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
              > > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
              > > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
              > > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
              > > > for laypeople:
              > > >
              > > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
              > > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
              > > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
              > > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
              > > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
              > > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
              > >
              > > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
              > > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
              > > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
              > > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
              > > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
              > > or else".
              > >
              > > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
              > > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
              > > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
              > > meditation compulsory for monks.
              > >
              > > with metta
              > >
              > > Ven. Pandita
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • frank
              Ok, there are at least 4 confirmed occurences in Majjima Nikaya of the phrase, Here is a foot of a tree, an empty hut, [monks], you better practice jhana or
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
                Ok, there are at least 4 confirmed occurences in Majjima Nikaya of the
                phrase, "Here is a foot of a tree, an empty hut, [monks], you better
                practice jhana or you will deeply regret it later...."

                Majjhima occurrences: 152, 106, 19, 8, [ m8.nypo
                <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.008.nypo.html> ], [
                m19.than
                <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html> ], [
                m106.than
                <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.106.than.html> ], [
                m.152.than
                <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.152.than.html> ]

                M152 is one of my all time favorite suttas. M8 and M19 I've also re-read
                with disproportionate frequency, which is why in my mind I have the
                impression the phrase "practice jhana" is much more frequent than 4
                occurrences out of 152 in Majjhima. I loooooove M152. I really love
                m152. I can not express in ascii how much I love that sutta. It
                describes what behavior and accomplishment we strive for in practicing
                the buddha's path. I'm cutting and pasting an excerpt from Thanissaro's
                translation:
                "And how is one a noble one with developed faculties?
                There is the case where, when seeing a form with the eye, there arises
                in a monk what is agreeable, what is disagreeable, what is agreeable &
                disagreeable.
                If he wants, he remains percipient of loathsomeness in the presence of
                what is not loathsome.
                If he wants, he remains percipient of unloathsomeness in the presence of
                what is loathsome.
                If he wants, he remains percipient of loathsomeness in the presence of
                what is not loathsome & what is.
                If he wants, he remains percipient of unloathsomeness in the presence of
                what is loathsome & what is not.
                If he wants — in the presence of what is loathsome & what is not —
                cutting himself off from both, he remains equanimous, alert, & mindful.
                ----------------------------------------------------------
                my comments: How beautiful is that? To abide in peace, freedom,
                fearlessness, under any and every circumstance that life can throw at
                you. I can totally understand the sentiment of Buddhists who have the
                desire to just bow to the triple gem for the rest of their life, I mean
                physically bow and prostrate again and again, forgoing eating, sleeping,
                etc... There's just no way fully express or capture how beautiful,
                profound, effective the dhamma is.
                -Frank










                On 1/5/2010 8:26 AM, frank wrote:
                > Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent
                > than that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such
                > as [M 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that
                > impression. Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a
                > much wider search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest
                > search for "empty hut" in DPR results in:
                > Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
                > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
                >
                > The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
                > repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the
                > ending page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version)
                > yesterday, and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search
                > results below found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to
                > look into that discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later
                > today or tomorrow...
                >
                > -Frank
                >
                >
                > On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
                >>
                >> Your search results:
                >>
                >> 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                >> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhave mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhu, mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
                >> bhikkhu, mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda
                >> mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615.
                >> Sa rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
                >> Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
                >> upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda,
                >> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
                >>
                >> Rosa
                >>
                >> _____
                >>
                >> From: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                >> [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                >> Behalf Of frank
                >> Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
                >> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                >> Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
                >> jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
                >> Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
                >>
                >> on compulsory meditation:
                >> I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
                >> unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
                >> Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
                >> reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
                >> samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
                >> empty hut, do jhana monks...":
                >>
                >> (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
                >> yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
                >> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
                >> <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
                >> <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
                >> <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
                >> <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
                >> <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
                >> <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
                >> <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
                >> <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
                >> tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
                >> <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
                >> <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
                >> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
                >> <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
                >> <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
                >> <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
                >> <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
                >> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
                >> <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
                >> <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
                >> <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
                >> <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
                >> vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
                >> <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
                >> <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
                >> amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
                >> <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
                >> <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
                >>
                >> This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
                >> mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
                >> enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
                >> jhana monks... " phrase.
                >> I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
                >> we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
                >> dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
                >> really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
                >> people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
                >> <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
                >> <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
                >> <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
                >> <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
                >> it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
                >>
                >> -Frank
                >>
                >> On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Dear Nina,
                >> >
                >> > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
                >> >
                >> > You wrote:
                >> >
                >> > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
                >> > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
                >> > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
                >> > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
                >> > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
                >> > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
                >> > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
                >> > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
                >> > > and the Community,
                >> > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
                >> > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
                >> > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
                >> > >
                >> > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
                >> > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
                >> > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
                >> > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
                >> > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
                >> > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
                >> > > with branches...>
                >> > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
                >> > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
                >> > > impatience and intolerance.
                >> > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
                >> > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
                >> > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
                >> > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
                >> > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
                >> > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
                >> > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
                >> > >
                >> > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
                >> > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
                >> > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
                >> > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
                >> > > for laypeople:
                >> > >
                >> > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
                >> > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
                >> > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
                >> > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
                >> > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
                >> > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
                >> >
                >> > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
                >> > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
                >> > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
                >> > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
                >> > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
                >> > or else".
                >> >
                >> > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
                >> > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
                >> > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
                >> > meditation compulsory for monks.
                >> >
                >> > with metta
                >> >
                >> > Ven. Pandita
                >> >
                >> >
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >>
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Rosa Grau gmail
                Frank, I searched for jāyatha, maybe that explains the discrepancies. I can do another search if necessary. What is DPR, by the way? Rosa _____ From:
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
                  Frank,



                  I searched for jāyatha, maybe that explains the discrepancies. I can do another search if necessary. What is DPR, by the way?



                  Rosa





                  _____

                  From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frank
                  Sent: dimarts, 5 / gener / 2010 17:27
                  To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe Vinaya Rules?, no 5.





                  Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
                  that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
                  152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
                  Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
                  search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
                  "empty hut" in DPR results in:
                  Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
                  <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
                  <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
                  <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
                  <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
                  <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
                  <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
                  <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0

                  The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
                  repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
                  page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
                  and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
                  found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
                  discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...

                  -Frank

                  On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
                  >
                  > Your search results:
                  >
                  > 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                  > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                  > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                  > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                  > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
                  > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
                  > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
                  > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
                  > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda mā
                  > pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa
                  > rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
                  > Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
                  > upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda,
                  > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
                  >
                  > Rosa
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                  > Behalf Of frank
                  > Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
                  > To: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
                  > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
                  > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
                  >
                  > on compulsory meditation:
                  > I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
                  > unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
                  > Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
                  > reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
                  > samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
                  > empty hut, do jhana monks...":
                  >
                  > (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
                  > yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
                  > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
                  > <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
                  > <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
                  > <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
                  > <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
                  > <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
                  > <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
                  > <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
                  > <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
                  > tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
                  > <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
                  > <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
                  > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
                  > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
                  > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
                  > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
                  > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
                  > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
                  > <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
                  > <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
                  > <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
                  > <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
                  > vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
                  > <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
                  > <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
                  > amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
                  > <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
                  > <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
                  >
                  > This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
                  > mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
                  > enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
                  > jhana monks... " phrase.
                  > I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
                  > we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
                  > dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
                  > really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
                  > people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
                  > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
                  > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
                  > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
                  > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
                  > it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
                  >
                  > -Frank
                  >
                  > On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Dear Nina,
                  > >
                  > > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
                  > >
                  > > You wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
                  > > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
                  > > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
                  > > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
                  > > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
                  > > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
                  > > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
                  > > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
                  > > > and the Community,
                  > > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
                  > > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
                  > > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
                  > > >
                  > > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
                  > > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
                  > > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
                  > > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
                  > > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
                  > > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
                  > > > with branches...>
                  > > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
                  > > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
                  > > > impatience and intolerance.
                  > > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
                  > > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
                  > > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
                  > > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
                  > > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
                  > > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
                  > > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
                  > > >
                  > > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
                  > > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
                  > > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
                  > > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
                  > > > for laypeople:
                  > > >
                  > > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
                  > > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
                  > > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
                  > > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
                  > > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
                  > > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
                  > >
                  > > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
                  > > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
                  > > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
                  > > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
                  > > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
                  > > or else".
                  > >
                  > > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
                  > > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
                  > > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
                  > > meditation compulsory for monks.
                  > >
                  > > with metta
                  > >
                  > > Ven. Pandita
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • grasje
                  Dear Frank, empty hut appears in the satipatthana sutta as well, then as su~n~naagaaragato. In the MN this word appears 7 times. If I skip the ending ato ,
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 5, 2010
                    Dear Frank,

                    "empty hut" appears in the satipatthana sutta as well, then as su~n~naagaaragato. In the MN this word appears 7 times.
                    If I skip the ending "ato", DPR finds suññāgāragatāpi (2) and su~n~naagaaragatopi (1) as well
                    In all situations the word is preceded by "foot of a tree".

                    The SN rends suññāgāragatānaṃ (1) and su~n~naagaaragato (15)

                    There might be other flexions that I am not aware of. This is as far as my Pali goes.

                    The -pe- repeats are not written out as complete text in the DPR, as far as I know, so you might want to check those in an other way. If you can do that on the plain pali text, here is how you can get it all in your wordprocessor:

                    The whole SN is in 5 files on your computer. The files are in the directory
                    Program files\DPR\DPR\xml\s1m.xml ; S2m ---S5m. The S1a files are the commentaries.
                    If you want to open the files directly it is better first to make a copy and save that copy in another directory. DPR will refuse to read files that have been saved by a normal wordprocessor. You can open the copy in a standard wordprocessor as long as you won't try to use the same file in your browser afterwards. The wordprocessor will process all the HTML-code and convert it to quite readable Velthuis, but still mixed with some stuff I don't understand.

                    BTW the directory DPPN contains the dictionary of pali proper names.
                    CSS contains the layout of the pages, etc contains the dictionaries, images contains images and js contains javascript, the actions happening when you click on one of the buttons. XML contains the tipitaka and the commentaries.

                    Kind regards,

                    Ria Glas


                    --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, frank <fcckuan@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
                    > that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
                    > 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
                    > Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
                    > search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
                    > "empty hut" in DPR results in:
                    > Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
                    > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
                    >
                    > The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
                    > repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
                    > page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
                    > and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
                    > found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
                    > discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...
                    >
                    > -Frank
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • frank
                    Thanks for the input Ria. I ll have to learn more about flexions and Pali rules before I can confidently enter better search strings. -Frank ... [Non-text
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 6, 2010
                      Thanks for the input Ria.
                      I'll have to learn more about flexions and Pali rules before I can
                      confidently enter better search strings.
                      -Frank

                      On 1/5/2010 1:08 PM, grasje wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Dear Frank,
                      >
                      > "empty hut" appears in the satipatthana sutta as well, then as
                      > su~n~naagaaragato. In the MN this word appears 7 times.
                      > If I skip the ending "ato", DPR finds suññÄ?gÄ?ragatÄ?pi (2) and
                      > su~n~naagaaragatopi (1) as well
                      > In all situations the word is preceded by "foot of a tree".
                      >
                      > The SN rends suññÄ?gÄ?ragatÄ?naá¹f (1) and su~n~naagaaragato (15)
                      >
                      > There might be other flexions that I am not aware of. This is as far
                      > as my Pali goes.
                      >
                      > The -pe- repeats are not written out as complete text in the DPR, as
                      > far as I know, so you might want to check those in an other way. If
                      > you can do that on the plain pali text, here is how you can get it all
                      > in your wordprocessor:
                      >
                      > The whole SN is in 5 files on your computer. The files are in the
                      > directory
                      > Program files\DPR\DPR\xml\s1m.xml ; S2m ---S5m. The S1a files are the
                      > commentaries.
                      > If you want to open the files directly it is better first to make a
                      > copy and save that copy in another directory. DPR will refuse to read
                      > files that have been saved by a normal wordprocessor. You can open the
                      > copy in a standard wordprocessor as long as you won't try to use the
                      > same file in your browser afterwards. The wordprocessor will process
                      > all the HTML-code and convert it to quite readable Velthuis, but still
                      > mixed with some stuff I don't understand.
                      >
                      > BTW the directory DPPN contains the dictionary of pali proper names.
                      > CSS contains the layout of the pages, etc contains the dictionaries,
                      > images contains images and js contains javascript, the actions
                      > happening when you click on one of the buttons. XML contains the
                      > tipitaka and the commentaries.
                      >
                      > Kind regards,
                      >
                      > Ria Glas
                      >
                      > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, frank
                      > <fcckuan@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent
                      > than
                      > > that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
                      > > 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
                      > > Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
                      > > search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
                      > > "empty hut" in DPR results in:
                      > > Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
                      > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
                      > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
                      > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
                      > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
                      > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
                      > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
                      > > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
                      > >
                      > > The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
                      > > repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
                      > > page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
                      > > and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
                      > > found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
                      > > discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or
                      > tomorrow...
                      > >
                      > > -Frank
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • frank
                      Hi Rosa, DPR = digital pali reader, which is a must have. you can get it from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/ Really fantastic work they did
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 6, 2010
                        Hi Rosa, DPR = digital pali reader, which is a must have. you can get it
                        from here:
                        http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/

                        Really fantastic work they did on that project. Huge time saver, space
                        saver, etc...

                        Which program and pali canon did you use to produce the search that
                        resulted in about 68 finds of the phrase

                        “What should be done for his disciples out of compassion by a Teacher
                        who seeks their welfare and has compassion for them,
                        that I have done for you, Ananda.
                        There are these roots of trees,
                        these empty huts.
                        Meditate, Ananda,
                        do not delay,
                        or else you will regret it later.
                        This is our instruction to you.”


                        -Frank






                        On 1/5/2010 10:42 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
                        >
                        > Frank,
                        >
                        > I searched for jāyatha, maybe that explains the discrepancies. I can
                        > do another search if necessary. What is DPR, by the way?
                        >
                        > Rosa
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                        > Behalf Of frank
                        > Sent: dimarts, 5 / gener / 2010 17:27
                        > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > Subject: Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
                        > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
                        > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
                        >
                        > Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
                        > that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
                        > 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
                        > Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
                        > search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
                        > "empty hut" in DPR results in:
                        > Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
                        > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
                        > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
                        > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
                        > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
                        > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
                        > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
                        > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
                        >
                        > The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
                        > repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
                        > page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
                        > and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
                        > found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
                        > discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...
                        >
                        > -Frank
                        >
                        > On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Your search results:
                        > >
                        > > 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                        > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                        > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                        > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                        > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
                        > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
                        > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
                        > > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
                        > > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda mā
                        > > pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa
                        > > rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
                        > > Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
                        > > upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda,
                        > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
                        > >
                        > > Rosa
                        > >
                        > > _____
                        > >
                        > > From: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                        > <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                        > <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                        > > Behalf Of frank
                        > > Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
                        > > To: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                        > <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
                        > > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
                        > > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
                        > >
                        > > on compulsory meditation:
                        > > I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
                        > > unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
                        > > Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
                        > > reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
                        > > samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
                        > > empty hut, do jhana monks...":
                        > >
                        > > (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
                        > > yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
                        > > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
                        > > <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
                        > > <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
                        > > <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
                        > > <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
                        > > <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
                        > > <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
                        > > <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
                        > > <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
                        > > tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
                        > > <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
                        > > <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
                        > > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
                        > > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
                        > > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
                        > > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
                        > > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
                        > > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
                        > > <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
                        > > <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
                        > > <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
                        > > <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
                        > > vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
                        > > <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
                        > > <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
                        > > amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
                        > > <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
                        > > <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
                        > >
                        > > This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
                        > > mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
                        > > enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
                        > > jhana monks... " phrase.
                        > > I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
                        > > we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
                        > > dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
                        > > really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
                        > > people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
                        > > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
                        > > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
                        > > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
                        > > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
                        > > it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
                        > >
                        > > -Frank
                        > >
                        > > On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Dear Nina,
                        > > >
                        > > > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
                        > > >
                        > > > You wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
                        > > > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
                        > > > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
                        > > > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of
                        > confidence
                        > > > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
                        > > > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
                        > > > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
                        > > > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
                        > > > > and the Community,
                        > > > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
                        > > > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
                        > > > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
                        > > > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
                        > > > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
                        > > > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be
                        > undertaken
                        > > > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of
                        > Patimokkha
                        > > > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
                        > > > > with branches...>
                        > > > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is
                        > bound
                        > > > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
                        > > > > impatience and intolerance.
                        > > > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
                        > > > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
                        > > > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of
                        > mindfulness
                        > > > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
                        > > > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
                        > > > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
                        > > > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
                        > > > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
                        > > > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
                        > > > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also
                        > beneficial
                        > > > > for laypeople:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the
                        > realization
                        > > > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and
                        > mental,
                        > > > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
                        > > > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
                        > > > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long
                        > may the
                        > > > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
                        > > >
                        > > > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
                        > > > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
                        > > > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
                        > > > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
                        > > > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
                        > > > or else".
                        > > >
                        > > > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
                        > > > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
                        > > > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
                        > > > meditation compulsory for monks.
                        > > >
                        > > > with metta
                        > > >
                        > > > Ven. Pandita
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Rosa Grau gmail
                        Hi Frank, I normally use the pali_tipitaka_utf8 file downloadable from www.buddhistethics.org . I will install it and see if
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 6, 2010
                          Hi Frank,



                          I normally use the pali_tipitaka_utf8 file downloadable from www.buddhistethics.org <http://www.buddhistethics.org/> . I will install it and see if there any advantages in using DPR. I would be grateful to know of any available resources, as very soon I am planning to do my MA in Lexicography research based on the Pali Canon, and I have to say that having studied Pali for one year I consider myself a beginner compared to the highly knowledgeable people in this group.

                          I used AntConc - a program used in corpus linguistics - to produce the search. If you’re interested just google AntConc and you will find it first on the list.



                          Rosa



                          _____

                          From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frank
                          Sent: dimecres, 6 / gener / 2010 17:50
                          To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe Vinaya Rules?, no 5.





                          Hi Rosa, DPR = digital pali reader, which is a must have. you can get it
                          from here:
                          http://sourceforge. <http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/> net/projects/digitalpali/

                          Really fantastic work they did on that project. Huge time saver, space
                          saver, etc...

                          Which program and pali canon did you use to produce the search that
                          resulted in about 68 finds of the phrase

                          “What should be done for his disciples out of compassion by a Teacher
                          who seeks their welfare and has compassion for them,
                          that I have done for you, Ananda.
                          There are these roots of trees,
                          these empty huts.
                          Meditate, Ananda,
                          do not delay,
                          or else you will regret it later.
                          This is our instruction to you.”

                          -Frank

                          On 1/5/2010 10:42 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
                          >
                          > Frank,
                          >
                          > I searched for jāyatha, maybe that explains the discrepancies. I can
                          > do another search if necessary. What is DPR, by the way?
                          >
                          > Rosa
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          > From: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                          > Behalf Of frank
                          > Sent: dimarts, 5 / gener / 2010 17:27
                          > To: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > Subject: Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
                          > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
                          > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
                          >
                          > Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
                          > that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
                          > 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
                          > Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
                          > search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
                          > "empty hut" in DPR results in:
                          > Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
                          > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
                          > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
                          > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
                          > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
                          > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
                          > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
                          > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
                          >
                          > The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
                          > repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
                          > page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
                          > and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
                          > found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
                          > discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...
                          >
                          > -Frank
                          >
                          > On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Your search results:
                          > >
                          > > 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                          > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                          > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave,
                          > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
                          > > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
                          > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha bhikkhave
                          > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
                          > > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha bhikkhu,
                          > > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda mā
                          > > pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa
                          > > rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
                          > > Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
                          > > upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha ānanda,
                          > > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
                          > >
                          > > Rosa
                          > >
                          > > _____
                          > >
                          > > From: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                          > <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                          > <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
                          > > Behalf Of frank
                          > > Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
                          > > To: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                          > <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
                          > > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
                          > > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
                          > >
                          > > on compulsory meditation:
                          > > I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
                          > > unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
                          > > Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
                          > > reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
                          > > samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
                          > > empty hut, do jhana monks...":
                          > >
                          > > (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
                          > > yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
                          > > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
                          > > <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
                          > > <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
                          > > <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
                          > > <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
                          > > <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
                          > > <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
                          > > <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
                          > > <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
                          > > tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
                          > > <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
                          > > <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
                          > > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
                          > > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
                          > > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
                          > > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
                          > > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
                          > > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
                          > > <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
                          > > <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
                          > > <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
                          > > <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
                          > > vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
                          > > <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
                          > > <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
                          > > amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
                          > > <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
                          > > <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
                          > >
                          > > This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
                          > > mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
                          > > enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
                          > > jhana monks... " phrase.
                          > > I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
                          > > we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
                          > > dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
                          > > really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
                          > > people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
                          > > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
                          > > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
                          > > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
                          > > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
                          > > it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
                          > >
                          > > -Frank
                          > >
                          > > On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Dear Nina,
                          > > >
                          > > > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
                          > > >
                          > > > You wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
                          > > > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
                          > > > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
                          > > > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of
                          > confidence
                          > > > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
                          > > > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
                          > > > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
                          > > > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
                          > > > > and the Community,
                          > > > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
                          > > > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
                          > > > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
                          > > > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
                          > > > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
                          > > > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be
                          > undertaken
                          > > > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of
                          > Patimokkha
                          > > > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
                          > > > > with branches...>
                          > > > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is
                          > bound
                          > > > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
                          > > > > impatience and intolerance.
                          > > > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
                          > > > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
                          > > > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of
                          > mindfulness
                          > > > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
                          > > > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
                          > > > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
                          > > > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
                          > > > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
                          > > > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
                          > > > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also
                          > beneficial
                          > > > > for laypeople:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the
                          > realization
                          > > > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and
                          > mental,
                          > > > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
                          > > > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
                          > > > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long
                          > may the
                          > > > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
                          > > >
                          > > > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
                          > > > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
                          > > > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
                          > > > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
                          > > > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
                          > > > or else".
                          > > >
                          > > > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
                          > > > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
                          > > > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
                          > > > meditation compulsory for monks.
                          > > >
                          > > > with metta
                          > > >
                          > > > Ven. Pandita
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
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                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
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                          >
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                          >
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