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[Pali] Dhammacakkappavattanasutta, no 5.

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear friends, summary of the commentary to the Dhammacakkappavattanasutta: The utterance of these words, exclaimed loudly, reached below the aviici hell, and
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 3, 2009
      Dear friends,

      summary of the commentary to the Dhammacakkappavattanasutta:

      The utterance of these words, exclaimed loudly, reached below the
      aviici hell, and upwards the highest point of the universe, extending
      to tenthousand world systems.
      At that time eighteen times ten million (ko.ti: ten million) of
      brahmans were meeting; the sun was setting in the West and the full
      moon with the constellation of the stars of the Month Aasaa.lha (June-
      July) was rising in the East. At that time the Blessed One started
      with the dhammacakkappavattanasutta, saying, "these, bhikkhus, are
      the two extremes... "
      -----------------
      The co. gives word explanations:
      pabbajitena, by someone gone forth: who has cut off the fetters of
      laylife.

      As to kaamesu kaamasukhallikaanuyogo (devotion to a life of luxury
      among sensual pleasures), the co. states as to the two meanings of
      kaama: the objects of sensedesire, vatthukaama, and the defilement of
      sense desire: kilesakaama.

      pothujjaniko, common: the co elaborates: andhabaalajanena aaci.n.no:
      accumulated by a person (jana) who is foolish (andha) and ignorant
      (baala).

      As to ignoble, unariyan ( anariyo): not noble, not pure (visuddho),
      not excellent (uttamo), not the property (santako) of the ariyans.

      As to devotion to self-mortification, which is painful,
      attakilamathaanuyogo, this brings pain to oneself.

      As to dukkha: it leads to pain (dukkhaavaho), killing oneself by
      laying on a bed of thorns (ka.n.takaapassayaseyya).

      As to cakkhu, eye, this is pa~n~naacakkhu, the eye of wisdom.

      Upasamaa, calm, this is the calm that is freedom of defilements.

      Abhi~n~naa, higher knowledge, understanding of the four truths.

      sambodhha, awakening, this is clear understanding of these truths.

      nibbaana: the realisation of nibbaana, nibbaanasacchikiriya

      For the Truths, saccakathaa: the co refers to the Visuddhimagga.
      For example: Vis. Ch XVI, 34 and following. Dukkha-dukkha is
      intrinsic suffering, bodily and mental painful feeling. Vipari.naama-
      dukkha is suffering in change: this is bodily and mental pleasant
      feeling which cause suffering when they change. Sa�nkhaara dukkha is
      the suffering due to formations. It dukkha inherent in all
      conditioned realities: their arising and falling away is dukkha, they
      cannot be of any refuge.
      -------
      Pali text co:
      Dveme, bhikkhave, antaati dve ime, bhikkhave, ko.t.thaasaa. Imassa
      pana padassa saha samudaahaarena samudaahaaranigghoso he.t.thaa
      aviici.m upari bhavagga.m patvaa dasasahassilokadhaatu.m pattharitvaa
      a.t.thaasi. Tasmi.myeva samaye a.t.thaarasako.tisa`nkhaa brahmaano
      samaagacchi.msu, pacchimadisaaya suuriyo atthameti, paaciinadisaaya
      aasaa.lhanakkhattena yutto pu.n.nacando uggacchati. Tasmi.m samaye
      bhagavaa ima.m dhammacakkappavattanasutta.m aarabhanto "dveme,
      bhikkhave, antaa"tiaadimaaha.

      Tattha pabbajitenaati gihisa.myojana.m chinditvaa pabbajjupagatena.
      Na sevitabbaati na va.la~njetabbaa. Yo caaya.m kaamesu
      kaamasukhallikaanuyogoti yo ca aya.m vatthukaamesu
      kilesakaamasukhassa anuyogo. Hiinoti laamako. Gammoti gaamavaasiina.m
      santako. Pothujjanikoti andhabaalajanena aaci.n.no. Anariyoti na
      ariyo na visuddho na uttamo na vaa ariyaana.m santako.
      Anatthasa.mhitoti na atthasa.mhito, hitasukhaavahakaara.na.m
      anissitoti attho. Attakilamathaanuyogoti attano kilamathassa anuyogo,
      attano dukkhakara.nanti attho. Dukkhoti ka.n.takaapassayaseyyaadiihi
      attamaara.nehi dukkhaavaho.

      Pa~n~naacakkhu.m karotiiti cakkhukara.nii. Dutiyapada.m tasseva
      vevacana.m. Upasamaayaati kilesuupasamatthaaya. Abhi~n~naayaati
      catunna.m saccaana.m abhijaananatthaaya. Sambodhaayaati tesa.myeva
      sambujjhanatthaaya. Nibbaanaayaati nibbaanasacchikiriyaaya.
      Sesamettha ya.m vattabba.m siyaa, ta.m he.t.thaa tattha tattha
      vuttameva. Saccakathaapi sabbaakaareneva visuddhimagge (visuddhi.
      2.529) vitthaaritaa.

      **********
      Nina.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lotsawanet
      Dear Nina, I am very glad that you started the study of the Dhammacakkappavattanasutta. Right now I am traveling from India to Nepal, where will be my home for
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 3, 2009
        Dear Nina,

        I am very glad that you started the study of the Dhammacakkappavattanasutta.
        Right now I am traveling from India to Nepal, where will be my home for the
        next year.
        Because of that I am a little in silence...

        Once I arrive and settle in Nepal, I would be very happy to participate more
        in this study.
        I could post comparisons from the version of the same sutra from Tibetan
        language, and analyses from it origins in Sanskrit.
        But maybe here that would be not the case for this study. Once I do not know
        pali, how would be a good way to participate?

        Sincerely,
        gabriel

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nina
        van Gorkom
        Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 4:45 PM
        To: pali@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Pali] Dhammacakkappavattanasutta, no 5.

        Dear friends,

        summary of the commentary to the Dhammacakkappavattanasutta:

        The utterance of these words, exclaimed loudly, reached below the
        aviici hell, and upwards the highest point of the universe, extending
        to tenthousand world systems.
        At that time eighteen times ten million (ko.ti: ten million) of
        brahmans were meeting; the sun was setting in the West and the full
        moon with the constellation of the stars of the Month Aasaa.lha (June-
        July) was rising in the East. At that time the Blessed One started
        with the dhammacakkappavattanasutta, saying, "these, bhikkhus, are
        the two extremes... "
        -----------------
        The co. gives word explanations:
        pabbajitena, by someone gone forth: who has cut off the fetters of
        laylife.

        As to kaamesu kaamasukhallikaanuyogo (devotion to a life of luxury
        among sensual pleasures), the co. states as to the two meanings of
        kaama: the objects of sensedesire, vatthukaama, and the defilement of
        sense desire: kilesakaama.

        pothujjaniko, common: the co elaborates: andhabaalajanena aaci.n.no:
        accumulated by a person (jana) who is foolish (andha) and ignorant
        (baala).

        As to ignoble, unariyan ( anariyo): not noble, not pure (visuddho),
        not excellent (uttamo), not the property (santako) of the ariyans.

        As to devotion to self-mortification, which is painful,
        attakilamathaanuyogo, this brings pain to oneself.

        As to dukkha: it leads to pain (dukkhaavaho), killing oneself by
        laying on a bed of thorns (ka.n.takaapassayaseyya).

        As to cakkhu, eye, this is pa~n~naacakkhu, the eye of wisdom.

        Upasamaa, calm, this is the calm that is freedom of defilements.

        Abhi~n~naa, higher knowledge, understanding of the four truths.

        sambodhha, awakening, this is clear understanding of these truths.

        nibbaana: the realisation of nibbaana, nibbaanasacchikiriya

        For the Truths, saccakathaa: the co refers to the Visuddhimagga.
        For example: Vis. Ch XVI, 34 and following. Dukkha-dukkha is
        intrinsic suffering, bodily and mental painful feeling. Vipari.naama-
        dukkha is suffering in change: this is bodily and mental pleasant
        feeling which cause suffering when they change. Sa”nkhaara dukkha is
        the suffering due to formations. It dukkha inherent in all
        conditioned realities: their arising and falling away is dukkha, they
        cannot be of any refuge.
        -------
        Pali text co:
        Dveme, bhikkhave, antaati dve ime, bhikkhave, ko.t.thaasaa. Imassa
        pana padassa saha samudaahaarena samudaahaaranigghoso he.t.thaa
        aviici.m upari bhavagga.m patvaa dasasahassilokadhaatu.m pattharitvaa
        a.t.thaasi. Tasmi.myeva samaye a.t.thaarasako.tisa`nkhaa brahmaano
        samaagacchi.msu, pacchimadisaaya suuriyo atthameti, paaciinadisaaya
        aasaa.lhanakkhattena yutto pu.n.nacando uggacchati. Tasmi.m samaye
        bhagavaa ima.m dhammacakkappavattanasutta.m aarabhanto "dveme,
        bhikkhave, antaa"tiaadimaaha.

        Tattha pabbajitenaati gihisa.myojana.m chinditvaa pabbajjupagatena.
        Na sevitabbaati na va.la~njetabbaa. Yo caaya.m kaamesu
        kaamasukhallikaanuyogoti yo ca aya.m vatthukaamesu
        kilesakaamasukhassa anuyogo. Hiinoti laamako. Gammoti gaamavaasiina.m
        santako. Pothujjanikoti andhabaalajanena aaci.n.no. Anariyoti na
        ariyo na visuddho na uttamo na vaa ariyaana.m santako.
        Anatthasa.mhitoti na atthasa.mhito, hitasukhaavahakaara.na.m
        anissitoti attho. Attakilamathaanuyogoti attano kilamathassa anuyogo,
        attano dukkhakara.nanti attho. Dukkhoti ka.n.takaapassayaseyyaadiihi
        attamaara.nehi dukkhaavaho.

        Pa~n~naacakkhu.m karotiiti cakkhukara.nii. Dutiyapada.m tasseva
        vevacana.m. Upasamaayaati kilesuupasamatthaaya. Abhi~n~naayaati
        catunna.m saccaana.m abhijaananatthaaya. Sambodhaayaati tesa.myeva
        sambujjhanatthaaya. Nibbaanaayaati nibbaanasacchikiriyaaya.
        Sesamettha ya.m vattabba.m siyaa, ta.m he.t.thaa tattha tattha
        vuttameva. Saccakathaapi sabbaakaareneva visuddhimagge (visuddhi.
        2.529) vitthaaritaa.

        **********
        Nina.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      • Nina van Gorkom
        Dear Gabriel, ... N: Thank you for your kind words. I do not know Tibetan nor sanskrit, but as I said, on Piya s website you will find info on paralel texts.
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 4, 2009
          Dear Gabriel,
          Op 3-nov-2009, om 21:08 heeft Lotsawanet het volgende geschreven:

          > I could post comparisons from the version of the same sutra from
          > Tibetan
          > language, and analyses from it origins in Sanskrit.
          > But maybe here that would be not the case for this study. Once I do
          > not know
          > pali, how would be a good way to participate?
          -------
          N: Thank you for your kind words. I do not know Tibetan nor sanskrit,
          but as I said, on Piya's website you will find info on paralel texts.
          At the same time you could learn Pali, since I provide a trilinear
          text, using John Kelly's original translation that is set in Unicode
          by Yong Peng.

          This is word by word and if you need more info on this I am very glad
          to discuss the Pali words.
          Since you know Sanskrit, it may be interesting for you to learn Pali
          as well.
          Best wishes for your stay in Nepal, I have been there several times.
          Nina.




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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