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Re: why warrior is the best clan RE: SV: [Pali] Re: Buddhist Imprimatur?

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  • Piya Tan
    Dear Ardavarz & friends, Apparently k.shatriya is related to satrap, satrapy, etc, a term used in the Indo-Greek kingdoms of NW India. I m not sure of the
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 1, 2009
      Dear Ardavarz & friends,

      Apparently k.shatriya is related to satrap, satrapy, etc, a term used in the
      Indo-Greek kingdoms of NW India.

      I'm not sure of the details.

      With metta,

      Piya




      On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 8:43 AM, ardavarz <ardavarz@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      >
      > Just a note:
      >
      > "Khattiya (better translated by "knights" than by "warrior" perhaps)"
      >
      > Khattiya = in Sanskrit Kshatriya - is literally "ruler" or "governor".
      > Etymologically it is from the verb root kshi - "to possess, to have power
      > over, rule, govern, be master of" - plus suffix t.r designating the "doer"
      > of something. (It could be also from ksha - "field" and tra - "protecting"
      > i.e. "protector of the land".)
      >
      > Here is an interesting excerpt from the Monier-Williams' Dictionary - the
      > entry for "kshatra" ("dominion, power"):
      >
      > "- the military or reigning order (the members of which in the earliest
      > times , as represented by the Vedic hymns , were generally called Raajanya ,
      > not Kshatriya.
      > - afterwards , when the difference between Brahman and Kshatra or the
      > priestly and civil authorities became more distinct , applied to the second
      > or reigning or military caste) VS. AV. TS. &c.
      > - a member of the military or second order or caste , warrior Mn. MBh. &c.
      > (fancifully derived fr. k.shataat tra fr. root trai i.e. "a preserver from
      > injury "' Ragh. ii , 53)".
      >
      > There is a theory that originally the casts were not hereditary social
      > groups but a designation of people with different psycho-somatic
      > predispositions fit for one or another kind of job. (The word for "cast" is
      > var.na (in Pali - va.n.na) - literally "colour" or metaphorically
      > "quality".)
      >
      > Why the Buddha has said that the Khattiyas are the best should probably be
      > deduced from the context. I think that the casts are neither denied (as it
      > is usually maintained) nor approved by the Buddhism because they are
      > irrelevant to the liberation. Buddhism is not concern with the casts, social
      > contradictions etc. but with the elimination of suffering which is the same
      > for all beings. This is a revolution in the psyche, not in society (society
      > just doesn't matter).
      >
      > Metta,
      > Ardavarz
      >
      > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, Jacques Huynen
      > <jhuynen@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello everyone,
      > > �
      > > The last sloka of the Cakkavatti Sutta (32) does indeed states that "in
      > terms of birth or caste the Khattiya are best". But what does it mean in the
      > social and anthropological context of the time? � According to some, among
      > which DD. Kosambi (Culture and Civilisation of Ancient India) at the time of
      > the Buddha, the brahmins were barely beginning trying to assert their
      > superiority and impose their moral dominance on Indian (Aryan) society. They
      > were of course opposed by many non-brahmin groups,� non -Aryan and even
      > Aryan, among which the Khattiya (better translated by "knights" than by
      > "warrior" perhaps) who had to that point been dominant. The Cakkavatti Sutta
      > also notes the "egalitarian ethos" of the Khattiya : among them the best
      > (strongest but also most clever) is elected as the leader or King (
      > mahasamata or Great Elected). The Khattiya at that time may have been not
      > only more equalitarian but also, as a caste, more porous. Some even wondered
      > if the
      > > Sakyas, the clan of the Buddha, had not been first� of some aboriginal,
      > non-Aryan� stock (cf EJ.Thomas, Life of Buddha, Legend and
      > History).� Belonging to the Khattiya was perhaps at the time not only and
      > necessarily the result of� birth but of a moral might� gotten from merit,
      > strenght, courage, intelligence. It is also � possible that the contemporary
      > kings of the janapadas making up India at the time, and the kings of Magadha
      > later, all Khattiyas, though perhaps sincere in their allegiance to the
      > Buddha, also thought his doctrine� politically opportune in fending off
      > Brahmines' pretensions.�
      > > �
      >
      > > What matters is that for the Khattiya, as for the Buddha, one of them,
      > dominance is not inherited but obtained through merit.
      > > �
      > > With Metta
      > > �
      > > J. Huynen
      > > �
      > > �
      > >
      > > --- On Thu, 10/29/09, frank <fcckuan@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From: frank <fcckuan@...>
      > > Subject: why warrior is the best clan RE: SV: [Pali] Re: Buddhist
      > Imprimatur?
      > > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Date: Thursday, October 29, 2009, 5:22 PM
      > >
      > >
      > > �
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > _____
      > >
      > > From: Pali@yahoogroups. com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
      > Kum��ra
      > > Bhikkhu.
      > > [snip]
      > > Hmm.... never thought of that before. I wonder if elements of that could
      > > have infiltrated into the suttas. I personally find it odd that in one
      > sutta
      > > the Buddha claims that the khattiya/Kshatriya is the best of all clans.
      > >
      > > Greetings Venerable Kumara,
      > >
      > > I heard a talk from a monk last year that explained this in a way that
      > made
      > > a great deal of sense to me. I will relate what I heard but be warned it
      > is
      > > embellished with many of my own opinions which may be completely
      > erroneous.
      > >
      > > If the Buddha is enlightened, by definition they are beyond identifying
      > with
      > > any clan, political affiliation, class, race, country, etc. Nor would
      > they
      > > praise warriors for killing their enemies. The only killing that
      > enlightened
      > > beings endorse are the metaphorical ���killing�� of one���s own delusions
      > and
      > > defilements (one sutta the Buddha praised the killing of anger for
      > example).
      > > The Buddha proclaimed the warrior class as the best (as opposed to
      > Brahmins
      > > or other castes) because the warrior is trained and accustomed to dealing
      > > with extreme adversity and finding a way to overcome whatever obstacles
      > and
      > > difficulties that arise. For context, consider all the difficulties that
      > > arise in meditation. The hindrances, boredom, agitation from facing the
      > > demons of one���s mind would lead to excuses by most castes (including
      > > Brahmins) to stop meditating. In stark contrast, the warrior sits as long
      > as
      > > it takes, enduring physical pain, mental agony, patiently fighting
      > through
      > > it all until they triumph and attain whatever can be attained by manly
      > > strength, manly energy. Perhaps the Buddha saw some of the Brahmins in
      > his
      > > day who were intellectually gifted and could give brilliant sermons and
      > > debate with impressive flair and confidence, but did not have the
      > > attainments to back up the talk, whereas the warrior didn���t waste time
      > > talking and would just get things done that needed to be done. It makes
      > > complete sense to me why the Buddha praised certain qualities of the
      > > warrior. The dedication required to steadfastly adhere to the 4
      > foundations
      > > of mindfulness at all times, it takes a warrior spirit. In the suttas,
      > you
      > > can see the monks never give in to sleep without a fight. When they
      > engage
      > > in activities such as eating which is perilously close to the 5 cords of
      > > sensual pleasure, with the warrior spirit they vigilantly guard every
      > moment
      > > against delighting in taste and hankering for the continuation of
      > > stimulating taste, knowing that failure to do so leads to their
      > defilements
      > > exponentially increasing and compounding over time like credit card debt
      > > that quickly compounds and spirals into bankruptcy. The factor of right
      > > effort, persistence, energy, expressed by the pali word Viriya, has the
      > root
      > > meaning ���hero�� or ���warrior�� . The pali word Tapas(?) which
      > frequently is
      > > translated as ���ardent�� , occurring frequently in the 4 foundations of
      > > mindfulness sutta, also brings to mind the heroic effort required to
      > > maintain mindfulness. One commentator wrote that ���ardent�� was too mild
      > of a
      > > translation, that failed to capture the power behind the word. The
      > > Visuddhimagga I believe used the simile of Tapas being like the intense
      > heat
      > > of the sun (mindfulness) that can incinerate all defilements. Such is the
      > > extraordinary power of mindfulness done with heroic warrior spirit.
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
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      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >



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