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Re: [Pali] AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (7)

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Yong Peng, thank you very much. Op 27-sep-2009, om 16:23 heeft yongpeng.ong het volgende geschreven: Y.P: Katha~nca, bhikkhave, codako bhikkhu saadhuka.m
    Message 1 of 97 , Sep 28, 2009
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      Dear Yong Peng,
      thank you very much.
      Op 27-sep-2009, om 16:23 heeft yongpeng.ong het volgende geschreven:
      Y.P: "Katha~nca, bhikkhave, codako bhikkhu saadhuka.m attanaava
      attaana.m paccavekkhati?

      ."And, O monks, how does the rebuking monk thoroughly reflect by
      himself or himself?
      -------

      N: As before, the PTS suggests: practises strict self-examination.

      -------

      Y.P.: Iti mameva tattha accayo accagamaa su`nkadaayaka.mva
      bha.n.dasminti.
      Hence, overcoming me there, like one paying tax on goods was overcome."

      -------

      N: As in the previous passage which is similar, the PTS: So herein my
      fault overcame me as in the case of one who has to pay duty on his
      good (the fault is of the smuggler, not of the Customs-house nor of
      the authorities or the officers).

      -----------

      Eva.m kho, bhikkhave, codako bhikkhu saadhuka.m attanaava attaana.m
      paccavekkhati.

      Y.P.: So, indeed, O monks, the rebuking monk committed thoroughly
      scrutinises himself.

      ------

      N : (for the English, a little change) So, indeed, O monks, the
      rebuking monk practises thorough self-examination.

      ---------

      Y P: "Yasmi.m, bhikkhave, adhikara.ne aapanno ca bhikkhu codako ca
      bhikkhu na saadhuka.m attanaava attaana.m paccavekkhati tasmeta.m,
      bhikkhave, adhikara.ne paa.tika`nkha.m diighattaaya kharattaaya
      vaa.lattaaya sa.mvattissati, bhikkhuu ca na phaasu.m viharissantiiti.

      "O monks, in a dispute which an offending monk and the rebuking monk
      do not exercise thorough introspection and self-examination, this, O
      monks, (as) is expected, will therefore lead to the prolongment,
      bitterness and struggle in the dispute, and the monks will not live
      at ease.

      --------

      N: (suggest a little change in the English): O monks, in a dispute
      where the offending monk and the rebuking monk do not exercise
      thorough introspection and self-examination, it will be expected that
      this will lead to the prolongment, bitterness and struggle in the
      dispute, and the monks will not live at ease.

      (and the opposite for the next sentence).

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ----------------------------

      upasa`nkamitvaa bhagavataa saddhi.m sammodi.

      Y.P.: came near, and exchanged greeting with the Blessed One.

      ------
      N: exchanged greetings. PTS: and coming to him greeted him courteously.

      I think this is more appropriate. sammodana: satisfaction,
      compliment, politeness.

      The Commentary mentions with reference to sammodaniiya, that the
      brahmin rejoiced, that he had rapture and gladness.
      -------------------
      Nina.

















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan, thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings,
      Message 97 of 97 , Jun 14 6:45 AM
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        Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,

        thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.

        Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.

        I will simply put everything together:

        dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti
        "(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"

        uppa.tipaa.tiyaa gahitapaa.lipadameva
        such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order

        hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
        for the significance and essence of the meaning

        bya~njananti
        "bya~njana.m"

        vuccati
        is called

        * Paraphrasing ...

        "dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".


        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

        I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.

        > I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
        > here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
        > of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
        > comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
        > "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
        > resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
        > members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
        > gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
        > "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).
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