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Re: savitakka, savicaara - AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (3)

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Nina, I see. ;-) This is a traditional view, but I have no objection to it. In a way, it reinforces the suttas (including the passage we just read) that
    Message 1 of 97 , Jul 13 5:11 AM
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      Dear Nina,

      I see. ;-) This is a traditional view, but I have no objection to it. In a way, it reinforces the suttas (including the passage we just read) that only through the seclusion of negative and unwholesome thoughts can the first jhana be attained. Thank you.

      I truly recommend Ven. H Gunaratana's books, which are available online, for further readings on the topic.

      metta,
      Yong Peng.


      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

      In the book Yong Peng referred to : The Jhaanas, by Ven. Hennepola, there is reference to this subject which we also find in the Visuddhimagga and other commentaries: <one-pointedness (samaadhi) is opposed to sensual desire, rapture (piiti) to illwill, applied thought to sloth and torpor, happiness to restlessness and worry, and sustained thought to doubt.

      This is elaborated on just a little by Acharn Sujin in her "Survey of Paramattha Dhammas":

      The five jhana-factors are opposed to the five hindrances.
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan, thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings,
      Message 97 of 97 , Jun 14, 2010
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        Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,

        thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.

        Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.

        I will simply put everything together:

        dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti
        "(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"

        uppa.tipaa.tiyaa gahitapaa.lipadameva
        such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order

        hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
        for the significance and essence of the meaning

        bya~njananti
        "bya~njana.m"

        vuccati
        is called

        * Paraphrasing ...

        "dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".


        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

        I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.

        > I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
        > here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
        > of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
        > comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
        > "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
        > resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
        > members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
        > gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
        > "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).
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