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Re: [Pali] Re: savitakka, savicaara - AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (3)

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Yong Peng and Jon F, ... N: The co. are available in Pali, and the Tiikas as well. I think you know this site: http://www.tipitaka.org/romn/ As I
    Message 1 of 97 , Jul 13, 2009
      Dear Yong Peng and Jon F,
      Op 12-jul-2009, om 6:02 heeft Jon Fernquest het volgende geschreven:

      > The big glaring gap are the commentaries on the main Sutta
      > collections (Digha Nikaya, Majjhima Nikaya, ... will try to provide
      > list today). I am always seeing references to them, but they are
      > not even easily available in Pali and there are no English
      > translations that I am aware of.
      --------
      N: The co. are available in Pali, and the Tiikas as well. I think you
      know this site: http://www.tipitaka.org/romn/

      As I mentioned before, for quick reference I use the Thai co. which
      is added after each sutta.

      Anyway, I am very grateful for what I learn in the commentaries. I
      found that the Tiikas to Visuddhimagga Ch XIV and Ch XVII which I
      read were very useful. Now I study the Co to the Sangiitisutta almost
      every day.
      -----------
      More on hindrances and jhaanafactors:
      In the book Yong Peng referred to : The Jhaanas, by Ven. Hennepola,
      there is reference to this subject which we also find in the
      Visuddhimagga and other commentaries: <one-pointedness (samaadhi) is
      opposed to sensual desire, rapture (piiti) to illwill, applied
      thought to sloth and torpor, happiness to restlessness and worry, and
      sustained thought to doubt.>

      This is elaborated on just a little by Acharn Sujin in her "Survey of
      Paramattha Dhammas":
      <The five jh�na-factors are opposed to the five hindrances.
      Vitakka cetasika applies itself to the object, it �touches� it, so
      that the citta is calm.
      Vic�ra cetasika continually occupies itself with the object vitakka
      touches, so that the citta does not become restless and takes another
      object.
      P�ti cetasika is satisfied with and takes delight in the meditation
      subject and sukha vedan�, happy feeling, increases this satisfaction.
      Ekaggat� cetasika which supports the other jh�na-factors is firmly
      concentrated on the object of the jh�na-citta of the first stage.

      The five jh�na-factors are opposed to, counteractive to the five
      hindrances in the following way (Visuddhimagga IV, 86):
      1. Vitakka cetasika is opposed to th�na-middha, sloth and torpor.
      When vitakka �thinks� only of the meditation subject, touches it time
      and again, dejectedness, listlessness and drowsiness cannot arise.
      2. Vic�ra cetasika is opposed to vicikicch�, doubt. When vic�ra
      cetasika is continually occupied with the object which vitakka
      touches, doubt about realities and doubt about cause and result
      cannot arise.
      3. P�ti cetasika is opposed to vy�p�da, ill-will. When calm with the
      meditation subject increases there will also be more rapture and
      delight with the subject of calm and then ill-will and displeasure
      cannot arise in between.
      4. Sukha, happy feeling, is opposed to uddhacca-kukkucca,
      restlessness and worry. When there is happy feeling about the
      meditation subject, restlessness and worry which could turn to
      another object cannot arise.
      5. Ekaggat� cetasika is opposed to k�macchanda, sensuous desire. When
      sam�dhi is firmly concentrated on the meditation subject, there
      cannot be attachment to sense objects. >
      (end quote. )

      I think this elaboration helps to understand better the meaning of
      the jhaanafactors and the way they suppress the hindrances so that
      calm with the meditation suibject can be developed.

      *****
      Nina.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan, thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings,
      Message 97 of 97 , Jun 14, 2010
        Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,

        thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.

        Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.

        I will simply put everything together:

        dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti
        "(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"

        uppa.tipaa.tiyaa gahitapaa.lipadameva
        such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order

        hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
        for the significance and essence of the meaning

        bya~njananti
        "bya~njana.m"

        vuccati
        is called

        * Paraphrasing ...

        "dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".


        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

        I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.

        > I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
        > here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
        > of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
        > comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
        > "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
        > resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
        > members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
        > gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
        > "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).
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