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Re: savitakka, savicaara - AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (3)

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Nina, Jon and friends, Nina, thank you for your understanding, generous support and kind words. I do think there is some interest in more advance
    Message 1 of 97 , Jul 10, 2009
      Dear Nina, Jon and friends,

      Nina, thank you for your understanding, generous support and kind words. I do think there is some interest in more advance discussion, but I am not "there" yet. And, I am very much staying at my current pace, focusing on AN, Saddaniti, NPC3 and the upcoming group reading of Warder's. My hands are full. ;-) So, other members would have to take the lead and maintain any discussion of their interests. I think this is the nature of a mailing list too.

      As for the photos, yes, it is a brilliant idea of Yahoo! to include the photos section, and there is ample disk space. We are an international group, and if there is a chance to meet each other, I think that must be good positive karma, and sharing photos which capture these positive moments will be a very positive thing to do. I am glad to learn you and Florent had a good meeting in Hague, a city of a great historic past, I read much about it in history. Hope to visit it one day too. ;-)

      metta,
      Yong Peng.


      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

      I do understand your preference. In the beginning with my translation of the co to the Mahaa Raahulovaadasutta, I remember that you recommended a cross reference of suttas for the understanding of a term. Anyway, to do both: cross reference and commentary. At that time Jim was so kind to provide me with many sutta texts so that I could compare and I greatly enjoyed this.

      I did not misunderstand your message and I am glad you are interested in commentaries as well. Sometimes the suttas are short, concise and then we wonder about the meaning. I found that the ancient commentary greatly helps to understand the suttas.

      Another topic: Florent will upload a photo, I remember that you said that you wished for more photos. We had a good, enjoyable Dhamma talk when he was in the Hague. I said that you are the best moderator, openminded and so good at encouraging different people. I liked it that you said I should become more active with the exercise translations. It is difficult for me to find time, but I will remember it.
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan, thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings,
      Message 97 of 97 , Jun 14, 2010
        Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,

        thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.

        Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.

        I will simply put everything together:

        dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti
        "(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"

        uppa.tipaa.tiyaa gahitapaa.lipadameva
        such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order

        hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
        for the significance and essence of the meaning

        bya~njananti
        "bya~njana.m"

        vuccati
        is called

        * Paraphrasing ...

        "dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".


        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

        I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.

        > I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
        > here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
        > of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
        > comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
        > "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
        > resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
        > members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
        > gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
        > "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).
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