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Re: savitakka, savicaara - AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (3)

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Jon and Nina, Jon, thanks for your post. 1. I consider that an expressed interest. So, that is good news for Nina. ;-) 2. There is no doubt English
    Message 1 of 97 , Jul 9, 2009
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      Dear Jon and Nina,

      Jon, thanks for your post.

      1. I consider that an expressed interest. So, that is good news for Nina. ;-)

      2. There is no doubt English translations of the commentaries would be valuable, and I am sure Nina would be able to provide excellent translations from the Pali. If you are keen to make it a regular feature, please propose your ideas.

      3. Bhikkhu Bodhi is right in his reflections of his first published translation. That the commentaries present a "narrower, more specific view" of the Buddha's teachings. I simply like to add "to a known target audience". For that matter, I am as keen as you to gain insight into the commentaries.

      4. My method of study gives preference to the suttas. It is fortunate that most of them are now available in English translations, which are helpful when I read the Pali. Given a certain topic, I prefer to check out what the Buddha mentioned in all the suttas, the teachings and the metaphors he used, and consult the commentaries only as necessary.

      Nina, I realise that we shouldn't let your efforts go to waste. And, I know you are always happy to contribute your time and effort. Do keep the posts coming, and post as it best suits you.


      metta,
      Yong Peng.
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan, thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings,
      Message 97 of 97 , Jun 14, 2010
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        Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,

        thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.

        Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.

        I will simply put everything together:

        dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti
        "(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"

        uppa.tipaa.tiyaa gahitapaa.lipadameva
        such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order

        hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
        for the significance and essence of the meaning

        bya~njananti
        "bya~njana.m"

        vuccati
        is called

        * Paraphrasing ...

        "dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".


        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

        I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.

        > I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
        > here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
        > of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
        > comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
        > "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
        > resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
        > members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
        > gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
        > "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).
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