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Re: savitakka, savicaara - AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (3)

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Nina, thank you again. I definitely like to learn more about the jhana factors. However, I do not know why you have to refer to the commentaries. Are you
    Message 1 of 97 , Jul 8, 2009
      Dear Nina,

      thank you again. I definitely like to learn more about the jhana factors. However, I do not know why you have to refer to the commentaries. Are you referring to the commentaries for the current passage?

      My opinion is we should first look at other sutta passages, and only when they are exhausted that we begin to look beyond the suttas. For example, you provided an excellent write-up on 'dhamma', a word which may occur several times in the same sutta taking on different meanings with a difficult context.

      I would be less interested to study entirely from the commentaries when the suttas already have good explanations. However, I will not stop you from posting. ;-)

      I would also recommend that we start a new thread to keep the messages manageable.

      metta,
      Yong Peng.


      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

      You asked some time ago what the jhaanafactors are doing exactly and I looked up more material in the Commentaries. It will take some time for me to summarize it, but if you like I can do it.
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan, thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings,
      Message 97 of 97 , Jun 14, 2010
        Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,

        thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.

        Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.

        I will simply put everything together:

        dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti
        "(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"

        uppa.tipaa.tiyaa gahitapaa.lipadameva
        such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order

        hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
        for the significance and essence of the meaning

        bya~njananti
        "bya~njana.m"

        vuccati
        is called

        * Paraphrasing ...

        "dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".


        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

        I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.

        > I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
        > here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
        > of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
        > comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
        > "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
        > resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
        > members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
        > gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
        > "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).
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