Re: [Pali] Re: savitakka, savicaara - AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (3)
- Dear Yong Peng,
I would like to add just a little to your summary.
Op 6-jul-2009, om 15:54 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:
> Here goes the summary.---------
> 3. The first jhana has five factors: savitakka, savicaara, piiti
> and sukha resulting from seclusion, and cetaso ekodibhaava (one-
> pointedness of mind).
> 4. The last factor is not explicitly mentioned in the formula
> because it is already implied by the jhana.
N: In the texts: vitakka and vicaara without sa. Sa means: with.
cetaso ekodibhaava (one-pointedness of mind): this is the cetasika
concentration or samaadhi. Ekaggata cetasika or samaadhi accompanies
each citta, but as jhaana factor it is wholesome and has a specific
All these factors are cetasikas accompanying the jhaanacitta and
supporting it. The jhaanacitta arises and falls away and with it the
accompanying cetasikas, including the jhaanafactors.
> Y.P.: 5. The first jhana is obtained through the temporary removal------
> of the five hindrances through seclusion (viveka).
N: We have to think also and mainly of mental seclusion: completely
removed from attachment to sense-objects. The aim of jhaana is to be
free from sense-objects and the defilements bound up with them.
> Y.P.: 6. It is temporary because jhana is not a permanent--------
> meditative state.
N: Very well said. Jhaanacittas succeed one another, and when more
skilfullness is acquired, there can be many of them, even for a whole
day. After the series of jhaanacittas have fallen away processes of
cittas experiencing sense objects begin again. And the hindrances.
> Y.P.: 9. The three factors of the second jhana are piiti and sukha-------
> resulting from samadhi, and one-pointedness of mind.
N: Samaadhi itself is onepointedness or concentration.
> Y.P.: 10. This state is described as inwardly calm.--------
N: There is calm, passaddhi with each kusala citta, but when
jhaanacittas succeed one another it is more prominent. Very keen
pa~n~naa is needed to discern when the citta is kusala citta and when
akusala citta, lest one takes what is subtle attachment to an idea of
calm for jhaana. Being alone in a quiet place is no guarantee for
true calm that is wholesome. One may cling to silence. Wholesome
(kusala) calm is being without lobha, dosa and moha.
> 11. The meditator progresses to the third jhana state with the-------
> cessation of piiti.
N: Great detachment is needed to let go of piiti, rapture. One may
have a great liking of rapture. Someone who can achieve this should
> Y.P.: 12. The factors of the third jhana are sukha and one----------
> pointedness of mind.
> 13. In addition, three cetasikas are present: upekkhaa, sati and
N: Upekkhaa stands here for equanimity, tatramajjhattataa. Sati and
sampaja~n~na (pa~n~naa) are necessary all the time, right from the
> 14. In the fourth jhana state, the meditator abandons sukha,-------
> dukkha, somanassa and domanassa.
> 15. Through equanimity, he attains the purity of mindfulness.
> 16. The two factors of this state are adukkhamasukha and one-
> pointedness of mind.
N: adukkhamasukha is indifferent feeling. He has abandoned sukha,
happy feeling. Each citta is accompanied by feeling, and in the case
of kusala citta the feeling is either happy feeling or indifferent
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,
thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.
Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.
I will simply put everything together:
"(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"
such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order
hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
for the significance and essence of the meaning
* Paraphrasing ...
"dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".
--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:
I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.
> I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
> here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
> of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
> comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
> "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
> resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
> members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
> gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
> "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).