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Re: [Pali] Re: savitakka, savicaara - AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (3)

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Yong Peng, I would like to add just a little to your summary. ... N: In the texts: vitakka and vicaara without sa. Sa means: with. cetaso ekodibhaava
    Message 1 of 97 , Jul 8 1:17 AM
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      Dear Yong Peng,
      I would like to add just a little to your summary.
      Op 6-jul-2009, om 15:54 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:

      > Here goes the summary.
      >
      > 3. The first jhana has five factors: savitakka, savicaara, piiti
      > and sukha resulting from seclusion, and cetaso ekodibhaava (one-
      > pointedness of mind).
      > 4. The last factor is not explicitly mentioned in the formula
      > because it is already implied by the jhana.
      ---------
      N: In the texts: vitakka and vicaara without sa. Sa means: with.
      cetaso ekodibhaava (one-pointedness of mind): this is the cetasika
      concentration or samaadhi. Ekaggata cetasika or samaadhi accompanies
      each citta, but as jhaana factor it is wholesome and has a specific
      function.
      All these factors are cetasikas accompanying the jhaanacitta and
      supporting it. The jhaanacitta arises and falls away and with it the
      accompanying cetasikas, including the jhaanafactors.
      --------
      > Y.P.: 5. The first jhana is obtained through the temporary removal
      > of the five hindrances through seclusion (viveka).
      ------
      N: We have to think also and mainly of mental seclusion: completely
      removed from attachment to sense-objects. The aim of jhaana is to be
      free from sense-objects and the defilements bound up with them.
      -------
      > Y.P.: 6. It is temporary because jhana is not a permanent
      > meditative state.
      --------
      N: Very well said. Jhaanacittas succeed one another, and when more
      skilfullness is acquired, there can be many of them, even for a whole
      day. After the series of jhaanacittas have fallen away processes of
      cittas experiencing sense objects begin again. And the hindrances.
      --------
      > Y.P.: 9. The three factors of the second jhana are piiti and sukha
      > resulting from samadhi, and one-pointedness of mind.
      -------
      N: Samaadhi itself is onepointedness or concentration.
      -------
      > Y.P.: 10. This state is described as inwardly calm.
      --------
      N: There is calm, passaddhi with each kusala citta, but when
      jhaanacittas succeed one another it is more prominent. Very keen
      pa~n~naa is needed to discern when the citta is kusala citta and when
      akusala citta, lest one takes what is subtle attachment to an idea of
      calm for jhaana. Being alone in a quiet place is no guarantee for
      true calm that is wholesome. One may cling to silence. Wholesome
      (kusala) calm is being without lobha, dosa and moha.
      ---------
      > 11. The meditator progresses to the third jhana state with the
      > cessation of piiti.
      -------
      N: Great detachment is needed to let go of piiti, rapture. One may
      have a great liking of rapture. Someone who can achieve this should
      be praised.
      --------
      > Y.P.: 12. The factors of the third jhana are sukha and one-
      > pointedness of mind.
      > 13. In addition, three cetasikas are present: upekkhaa, sati and
      > sampaja~n~na.
      ---------
      N: Upekkhaa stands here for equanimity, tatramajjhattataa. Sati and
      sampaja~n~na (pa~n~naa) are necessary all the time, right from the
      beginning.
      -------
      > 14. In the fourth jhana state, the meditator abandons sukha,
      > dukkha, somanassa and domanassa.
      > 15. Through equanimity, he attains the purity of mindfulness.
      > 16. The two factors of this state are adukkhamasukha and one-
      > pointedness of mind.
      -------
      N: adukkhamasukha is indifferent feeling. He has abandoned sukha,
      happy feeling. Each citta is accompanied by feeling, and in the case
      of kusala citta the feeling is either happy feeling or indifferent
      feeling.
      ******
      Nina.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan, thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings,
      Message 97 of 97 , Jun 14, 2010
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        Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,

        thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.

        Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.

        I will simply put everything together:

        dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti
        "(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"

        uppa.tipaa.tiyaa gahitapaa.lipadameva
        such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order

        hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
        for the significance and essence of the meaning

        bya~njananti
        "bya~njana.m"

        vuccati
        is called

        * Paraphrasing ...

        "dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".


        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

        I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.

        > I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
        > here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
        > of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
        > comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
        > "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
        > resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
        > members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
        > gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
        > "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).
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