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Re: [Pali] about 'accanta'

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  • tzungkuen
    Dear DimitryThanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group, I don t know what to do with my question. I still have problem
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 5, 2002
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      Dear Dimitry

      Thanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group,
      I don't know what to do with my question.
      I still have problem with this verse:
      ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

      > As I understand here on the first glance:
      > - accanta.m is translated as an archaic form of first person participle
      > 'gotten past';

      But PED says that 'accanta' is a noun meaning 'the end', not a participle of
      verb.

      > - purisaa etadantikaa = those men (were) final.
      purisaa and antikaa is respectively nominative and plural of purisa and
      antika
      but etad is singular. Can 'etad' qualify ' purisaa antikaa' ?
      And Is it proper to translate ' purisaa antikaa ' as 'Men are of end '?

      With metta

      Tzunguken

      -----------------------------------------------------------------
      < ¨C¤Ñ³£ Yahoo!©_¼¯ > www.yahoo.com.tw
    • ������� ���������� ��������� (Dimitry A.
      Dear Tzungkuen, t Thanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group, t I don t know what to do with my question. Why don t you look
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 6, 2002
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        Dear Tzungkuen,

        t> Thanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group,
        t> I don't know what to do with my question.

        Why don't you look up the commentary?

        t> I still have problem with this verse:
        t> ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

        >> As I understand here on the first glance:
        >> - accanta.m is translated as an archaic form of first person participle
        >> 'gotten past';

        t> But PED says that 'accanta' is a noun meaning 'the end', not a participle of
        t> verb.

        Indeed. Bhikkhu Bodhi's interpretation is unusual.

        That's how it is explained in Atthakatha

        Accanta.m mataputtaamhi'iti ettha anta.m atiita.m accanta.m,
        bhaavana'pu.msakam'eta.m. Ida.m vutta.m hoti- yathaa putta'mara.na.m
        anta.m atiita.m hoti, eva.m mata'puttaa aha.m, idaani mama puna
        putta'mara.na.m naama natthi.

        anta - having an end, ended;
        atiita - past, gone by;

        therefore 'accanta.m' here means 'complete, gone by, finished';

        Thus the first half according to commentary is:

        'Gone by is the death of sons'

        >> - purisaa etadantikaa = those men (were) final.
        t> purisaa and antikaa is respectively nominative and plural of purisa and
        t> antika
        t> but etad is singular. Can 'etad' qualify ' purisaa antikaa' ?
        t> And Is it proper to translate ' purisaa antikaa ' as 'Men are of end '?

        There is an explanation in the PED ('antika' article):

        'men are (to me) at the end for that, i.e. men do not exist any more
        for me, for the purpose of begetting sons.'

        The commentary continues:

        Purisaa etadantikaati purisaapi me etadantikaava. Yo me
        puttamara.nassa anto, purisaanampi me esevanto, abhabbaa aha.m idaani
        purisa.m gavesitunti.

        antikaa purisaa - final men;
        'etad' refers to the previous clause.

        Thus the second half is translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi according to
        commentary as:

        'with this, the search for men has ended'.

        With metta,
        Dimitry
      • tzungkuen
        Dear Dimitry Thanks for you explanation and your advice is very helpful to me. Now I know I can look up the commentary first when I encounter some question.
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 6, 2002
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          Dear Dimitry

          Thanks for you explanation and your advice is very helpful to me. Now I know I can look up the commentary first when I encounter some question.

          With Metta

          Tzungkuen
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: äÍÉÔÒÉÊ áÌÅËÓÅÅ×ÉÞ é×ÁÈÎÅÎËÏ (Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko)
          To: tzungkuen
          Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:47 AM
          Subject: Re[2]: [Pali] about 'accanta'


          Dear Tzungkuen,

          t> Thanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group,
          t> I don't know what to do with my question.

          Why don't you look up the commentary?

          t> I still have problem with this verse:
          t> ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

          >> As I understand here on the first glance:
          >> - accanta.m is translated as an archaic form of first person participle
          >> 'gotten past';

          t> But PED says that 'accanta' is a noun meaning 'the end', not a participle of
          t> verb.

          Indeed. Bhikkhu Bodhi's interpretation is unusual.

          That's how it is explained in Atthakatha

          Accanta.m mataputtaamhi'iti ettha anta.m atiita.m accanta.m,
          bhaavana'pu.msakam'eta.m. Ida.m vutta.m hoti- yathaa putta'mara.na.m
          anta.m atiita.m hoti, eva.m mata'puttaa aha.m, idaani mama puna
          putta'mara.na.m naama natthi.

          anta - having an end, ended;
          atiita - past, gone by;

          therefore 'accanta.m' here means 'complete, gone by, finished';

          Thus the first half according to commentary is:

          'Gone by is the death of sons'

          >> - purisaa etadantikaa = those men (were) final.
          t> purisaa and antikaa is respectively nominative and plural of purisa and
          t> antika
          t> but etad is singular. Can 'etad' qualify ' purisaa antikaa' ?
          t> And Is it proper to translate ' purisaa antikaa ' as 'Men are of end '?

          There is an explanation in the PED ('antika' article):

          'men are (to me) at the end for that, i.e. men do not exist any more
          for me, for the purpose of begetting sons.'

          The commentary continues:

          Purisaa etadantikaati purisaapi me etadantikaava. Yo me
          puttamara.nassa anto, purisaanampi me esevanto, abhabbaa aha.m idaani
          purisa.m gavesitunti.

          antikaa purisaa - final men;
          'etad' refers to the previous clause.

          Thus the second half is translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi according to
          commentary as:

          'with this, the search for men has ended'.

          With metta,
          Dimitry



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