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Re: Q. [Pali] Re: savitakka, savicaara - AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (3)

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  • DC Wijeratna
    Dear Nina, Many thanks for the explanation. With mettaa  D. G. D. C. Wijeratna ________________________________ From: Nina van Gorkom To:
    Message 1 of 97 , Jun 14 7:37 PM
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      Dear Nina,

      Many thanks for the explanation.

      With mettaa
       D. G. D. C. Wijeratna




      ________________________________
      From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 1:00:37 PM
      Subject: Re: Q. [Pali] Re: savitakka, savicaara - AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (3)





      Dear DC,
      appreciating your question.
      Op 12-jun-2009, om 16:23 heeft DC Wijeratna het volgende geschreven:

      > I find it difficult to understand this: "N: I would like to
      > consider more precisely what these five khandhas are:
      > ruupakkhandha: all ruupas, including, visible object, sound."
      >
      > We are of the opinion, that ruupupaadaanakkhand ha is something that
      > can be known only by Ariyas. Usual descriptions of ruupa includes
      > something formed from the four mahaabhuutas.
      -------
      N: It includes the four great Elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind) and
      the 24 derived ruupas.
      Not all ruupas are known by everybody, only those that appear at the
      present moment in daily life. The Element of Earth appears through
      the bodysense as hardness or softness. There is impingement at this
      moment and this ruupa can be understood as only an element, not the
      hardness of my body or belonging to a self. Just as natural as that.
      The ariyans have eradicated the wrong view of self, but before they
      became ariyans they had to begin developing understanding just like
      us now. How otherwise could they have fully developed understanding?
      One has to be aware and develop understanding of all dhammas that
      appear through eyes, ears, nose, tongue, bodysense and mind-door.

      Nina.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan, thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings,
      Message 97 of 97 , Jun 14 6:45 AM
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        Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,

        thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.

        Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.

        I will simply put everything together:

        dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti
        "(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"

        uppa.tipaa.tiyaa gahitapaa.lipadameva
        such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order

        hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
        for the significance and essence of the meaning

        bya~njananti
        "bya~njana.m"

        vuccati
        is called

        * Paraphrasing ...

        "dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".


        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

        I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.

        > I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
        > here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
        > of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
        > comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
        > "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
        > resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
        > members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
        > gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
        > "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).
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