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about 'accanta'

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  • tzungkuen
    Dear Dhammafriends : A verse in Gotamiisuttam of Bhikkhunisam.yutta: Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa; Na socaami na rodaami, na tam. bhaayaami
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 4, 2002
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      Dear Dhammafriends :
      A verse in Gotamiisuttam of Bhikkhunisam.yutta:

      ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

      Na socaami na rodaami, na tam. bhaayaami aavuso.'

      This verse is translated by Bodhi Bhikkhu as follows:


      'I've gotten past the death of sons

      With this, the search for men has ended.'

      I don't understand the sentence 'Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa'.

      Is there any sentence pattern of 'accanta'? Could anybody analyze it for me? Thank you.

      with metta

      Tzungkuen



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • tzungkuen
      Dear DimitryThanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group, I don t know what to do with my question. I still have problem
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 5, 2002
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        Dear Dimitry

        Thanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group,
        I don't know what to do with my question.
        I still have problem with this verse:
        ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

        > As I understand here on the first glance:
        > - accanta.m is translated as an archaic form of first person participle
        > 'gotten past';

        But PED says that 'accanta' is a noun meaning 'the end', not a participle of
        verb.

        > - purisaa etadantikaa = those men (were) final.
        purisaa and antikaa is respectively nominative and plural of purisa and
        antika
        but etad is singular. Can 'etad' qualify ' purisaa antikaa' ?
        And Is it proper to translate ' purisaa antikaa ' as 'Men are of end '?

        With metta

        Tzunguken

        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        < ¨C¤Ñ³£ Yahoo!©_¼¯ > www.yahoo.com.tw
      • ������� ���������� ��������� (Dimitry A.
        Dear Tzungkuen, t Thanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group, t I don t know what to do with my question. Why don t you look
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 6, 2002
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          Dear Tzungkuen,

          t> Thanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group,
          t> I don't know what to do with my question.

          Why don't you look up the commentary?

          t> I still have problem with this verse:
          t> ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

          >> As I understand here on the first glance:
          >> - accanta.m is translated as an archaic form of first person participle
          >> 'gotten past';

          t> But PED says that 'accanta' is a noun meaning 'the end', not a participle of
          t> verb.

          Indeed. Bhikkhu Bodhi's interpretation is unusual.

          That's how it is explained in Atthakatha

          Accanta.m mataputtaamhi'iti ettha anta.m atiita.m accanta.m,
          bhaavana'pu.msakam'eta.m. Ida.m vutta.m hoti- yathaa putta'mara.na.m
          anta.m atiita.m hoti, eva.m mata'puttaa aha.m, idaani mama puna
          putta'mara.na.m naama natthi.

          anta - having an end, ended;
          atiita - past, gone by;

          therefore 'accanta.m' here means 'complete, gone by, finished';

          Thus the first half according to commentary is:

          'Gone by is the death of sons'

          >> - purisaa etadantikaa = those men (were) final.
          t> purisaa and antikaa is respectively nominative and plural of purisa and
          t> antika
          t> but etad is singular. Can 'etad' qualify ' purisaa antikaa' ?
          t> And Is it proper to translate ' purisaa antikaa ' as 'Men are of end '?

          There is an explanation in the PED ('antika' article):

          'men are (to me) at the end for that, i.e. men do not exist any more
          for me, for the purpose of begetting sons.'

          The commentary continues:

          Purisaa etadantikaati purisaapi me etadantikaava. Yo me
          puttamara.nassa anto, purisaanampi me esevanto, abhabbaa aha.m idaani
          purisa.m gavesitunti.

          antikaa purisaa - final men;
          'etad' refers to the previous clause.

          Thus the second half is translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi according to
          commentary as:

          'with this, the search for men has ended'.

          With metta,
          Dimitry
        • tzungkuen
          Dear Dimitry Thanks for you explanation and your advice is very helpful to me. Now I know I can look up the commentary first when I encounter some question.
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 6, 2002
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            Dear Dimitry

            Thanks for you explanation and your advice is very helpful to me. Now I know I can look up the commentary first when I encounter some question.

            With Metta

            Tzungkuen
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: äÍÉÔÒÉÊ áÌÅËÓÅÅ×ÉÞ é×ÁÈÎÅÎËÏ (Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko)
            To: tzungkuen
            Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:47 AM
            Subject: Re[2]: [Pali] about 'accanta'


            Dear Tzungkuen,

            t> Thanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group,
            t> I don't know what to do with my question.

            Why don't you look up the commentary?

            t> I still have problem with this verse:
            t> ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

            >> As I understand here on the first glance:
            >> - accanta.m is translated as an archaic form of first person participle
            >> 'gotten past';

            t> But PED says that 'accanta' is a noun meaning 'the end', not a participle of
            t> verb.

            Indeed. Bhikkhu Bodhi's interpretation is unusual.

            That's how it is explained in Atthakatha

            Accanta.m mataputtaamhi'iti ettha anta.m atiita.m accanta.m,
            bhaavana'pu.msakam'eta.m. Ida.m vutta.m hoti- yathaa putta'mara.na.m
            anta.m atiita.m hoti, eva.m mata'puttaa aha.m, idaani mama puna
            putta'mara.na.m naama natthi.

            anta - having an end, ended;
            atiita - past, gone by;

            therefore 'accanta.m' here means 'complete, gone by, finished';

            Thus the first half according to commentary is:

            'Gone by is the death of sons'

            >> - purisaa etadantikaa = those men (were) final.
            t> purisaa and antikaa is respectively nominative and plural of purisa and
            t> antika
            t> but etad is singular. Can 'etad' qualify ' purisaa antikaa' ?
            t> And Is it proper to translate ' purisaa antikaa ' as 'Men are of end '?

            There is an explanation in the PED ('antika' article):

            'men are (to me) at the end for that, i.e. men do not exist any more
            for me, for the purpose of begetting sons.'

            The commentary continues:

            Purisaa etadantikaati purisaapi me etadantikaava. Yo me
            puttamara.nassa anto, purisaanampi me esevanto, abhabbaa aha.m idaani
            purisa.m gavesitunti.

            antikaa purisaa - final men;
            'etad' refers to the previous clause.

            Thus the second half is translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi according to
            commentary as:

            'with this, the search for men has ended'.

            With metta,
            Dimitry



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