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Re: [Pali] AN2.2 Adhikara.na Vagga (3)

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Yong Peng, Thank you very much. ... Usually the jhaanafactors of vitakka and vicaara are translated as applied thinking and sustained thinking. They are
    Message 1 of 97 , Jun 1, 2009
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      Dear Yong Peng,
      Thank you very much.
      Op 31-mei-2009, om 15:00 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:

      > savitakka (adj) accompanied by reasoning.
      > savicaara (adj) accompanied by investigation.
      --------
      Usually the jhaanafactors of vitakka and vicaara are translated as
      applied thinking and sustained thinking. They are factors
      accompanying the lower stages of jhaana. They are still needed, the
      meditator has to 'think' of the meditation subject in order to be
      absorbed. But later on he can abandon these coarse factors, and then
      jhaana is more refined.

      Adding from the commentary: there are different reasons for
      cultivating jhaana, such as becoming concentrated, as basis for
      developing miraculous powers, but here: as basis for vipassanaa. He
      emerges from jhaana and considers all conditioned dhammas, their
      causes and conditions until he has attained arahatship. The
      commentator speaks about lokiya jhaana and lokuttara jhaana.
      N: Lokuttara jhaana accompanies lokuttara citta that experiences
      nibbaana.

      *****
      Nina.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan, thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings,
      Message 97 of 97 , Jun 14, 2010
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        Dear Nina, Jim and Bryan,

        thanks for your informed discussion. It is very interesting to note how the commentary uses bya~njana twice with different meanings, something I also noted to happen frequently in Sadd., a test of the intellect.

        Also thanks to Bryan for highlighting "padabya~njana" as "letters and words", or we may still be lost in translation.

        I will simply put everything together:

        dunnikkhitta~nca padabya~njananti
        "(and) incorrectly arranged letter(s) and/or word(s)"

        uppa.tipaa.tiyaa gahitapaa.lipadameva
        such a word of the text taken out of sequence/order

        hi atthassa bya~njanattaa
        for the significance and essence of the meaning

        bya~njananti
        "bya~njana.m"

        vuccati
        is called

        * Paraphrasing ...

        "dunnikkhitta.m padabya~njana.m" is such a word of the text taken out of sequence, for the significance and essence of the meaning is called "bya~njana.m".


        metta,
        Yong Peng.


        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

        I still have trouble with the translation, but I wait for Yong Peng.

        > I don't think "letter" is the right translation for "bya~njana.m"
        > here which is explained by "atthassa bya~njanattaa" (from the fact
        > of explaining the meaning). Cf. "saattha.m sabya~njana.m". The
        > comment: "padameva. . . bya~njananti" tells me that
        > "padabya~njana.m" is a specific type of kammadhaaraya compound that
        > resolves with the particle "eva" after the first member (both
        > members are in the same case). I also think "uppa.tipaa.tiyaa
        > gahita-" (incorrectly or erroneously taken) is an interpretation of
        > "dunnikkhitta.m" (badly laid or put down).
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