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Re: [Pali] Saddniiti: introductory verses 7 & 8

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  • Jim Anderson
    Dear Mahinda, Thank-you for the clarification. I was aware of some of the commentarial definitions of pariyatti and had even posted the following from the
    Message 1 of 16 , May 6, 2009
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      Dear Mahinda,

      Thank-you for the clarification. I was aware of some of the
      commentarial definitions of 'pariyatti' and had even posted the
      following from the .tiikaa on Abh 784 a few months ago:

      "pariyatti pariyaapu.nitabbaa vinayaabhidhammasuttantaa." = "pariyatti
      is the vinaya, abhidhamma, & suttanta to be learnt or fully-mastered".

      My problem lies with translations such as 'scriptural learning' (you
      did translate it as 'textual learning') and I find this rather
      different from it being translated simply as 'the scriptures' or 'the
      texts'. I'm considering changing my translation of verse 8d from:
      "supported by competence in the scriptures." to "supported by the
      Scriptures." (i.e the teachings as preserved in the Scriptures or the
      Tipi.taka).

      Jim

      > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Jim Anderson
      <jimanderson.on@...>wrote:
      > >
      > > Pariyatti is a term I often seem to have trouble understanding.
      > >
      >
      > Why? The commentaries are quite clear on this word.Search the CSCD
      under
      > 'pariyattiiti' and you will get a number of defining references.
      Most of
      > them say "pariyattiiti tii.ni pi.takaani". A comment in Anguttara
      > Commentary goes further and says that Pariyatti means the three
      Pitakas
      > plus the commentaries. It is an entirely Buddhist usage. The
      Sanskrit
      > equivalent paryaapti is not used in this sense in Hindu literature.
      > PTSD has a fair explanation of the evolution of the term, from
      'mastery' to
      > "what is matered". (In olden times learning by heart and what has
      been
      > learnt by heart.)
      >
      > Mahinda
    • P G Dave
      *re. saasana *I would think saasana expresses a combination of the three concepts of teaching, training and discipline. I can t think of a perfect synonym in
      Message 2 of 16 , May 7, 2009
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        *re. saasana

        *I would think "saasana" expresses a combination of the three concepts of
        teaching, training and discipline.
        I can't think of a perfect synonym in english.

        metta,
        PG

        On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:12 AM, dhammadhiro <dhammadhiro@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > would you please me to give some advice
        > 1. what is the meaning of dispensation. is it the translation of saasana?
        > in my understanding the word saasana is buddha's teaching in general that is
        > Dhammavinaya. does 'Dispensation' mean that sense?
        > 2. in my understanding, the meaning of 'aasavakkhayalaabho ca,
        > saccaadhigamahetuko' is rather to be 'and the obtainment of the destruction
        > of the aasavas caused (or: lead to) the attainment of the truths'
        > 3. in my opinion, the word 'mata"m' is passive nominative. so the
        > translation would be 'and the attainment of the truths, based on practice,
        > is known.'
        >
        > best regards
        > Dhammadhiro
        >
        >
        > aasavakkhayalaabhena, hoti saasanasampadaa.
        > aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko..
        >
        > With the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas there is success
        > in the Dispensation;
        > and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas is caused by the
        > attainment of the truths; 7
        >
        > saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
        > pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya.naa..
        >
        > and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
        > practice;
        > and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
        > scriptures.
        >
        > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jim Anderson"
        > <jimanderson.on@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > The translation of verses 1 to 6 was first posted to the group on Feb.
        > > 1 (see #13281). This posting continues on with verses 7 & 8. There was
        > > some discussion of verse 8 during the discussion of the earlier
        > > verses. I take these two verses as a compound sentence consisting of 4
        > > coordinate clauses linked together with the particle 'ca'.
        > >
        > > aasavakkhayalaabhena, hoti saasanasampadaa.
        > > aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko..
        > >
        > > With the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas there is success
        > > in the Dispensation;
        > > and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas is caused by the
        > > attainment of the truths; 7
        > >
        > > saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
        > > pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya.naa..
        > >
        > > and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
        > > practice;
        > > and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
        > > scriptures. 8
        > >
        > > Note: 'pariyatti-' could also refer to the scriptures themselves (see
        > > PED).
        > >
        > > Best wishes,
        > > Jim
        > >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lennart Lopin
        Gospel (literally) ...if that word would not carry such a specific Christian context, it would be a perfect fit, see below... ========================== PED:
        Message 3 of 16 , May 8, 2009
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          "Gospel" (literally)

          ...if that word would not carry such a specific Christian context, it would
          be a perfect fit, see below...


          ==========================
          PED:
          ....susāsanaŋ dussānaŋ J i.239 (English transl.: "true and false doctrine,"
          "good and bad news")....
          http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/contextualize.pl?p.4.pali.35009

          Etym of gospel:
          O.E. godspel "good news," from god "good" + spel "story, message,"
          translation of L. bona adnuntiatio, itself a translation of Gk.
          euangelion "reward
          for bringing good news." First element of the O.E. word had a long "o," but
          it shifted under mistaken assoc. with God. Gospel-gossip was Addison's word
          ("Spectator," 1711) for "one who is always talking of sermons, texts, etc."
          http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gospel
          =============================================

          This would capture

          a.) Teaching
          b.) Message (worthy)
          c.) Training, a message to be put in practice
          d.) qualities of a "dispensation", "tradition" even "religion"

          ...but not really a serious consideration, given the many associations which
          people follow first, rather than thinking of a words etymology, :-)

          Lennart

          On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 1:08 AM, P G Dave <pgd2507@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > *re. saasana
          >
          > *I would think "saasana" expresses a combination of the three concepts of
          > teaching, training and discipline.
          > I can't think of a perfect synonym in english.
          >
          > metta,
          > PG
          >
          >
          > On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:12 AM, dhammadhiro <dhammadhiro@...<dhammadhiro%40yahoo.com>>
          > wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > would you please me to give some advice
          > > 1. what is the meaning of dispensation. is it the translation of saasana?
          > > in my understanding the word saasana is buddha's teaching in general that
          > is
          > > Dhammavinaya. does 'Dispensation' mean that sense?
          > > 2. in my understanding, the meaning of 'aasavakkhayalaabho ca,
          > > saccaadhigamahetuko' is rather to be 'and the obtainment of the
          > destruction
          > > of the aasavas caused (or: lead to) the attainment of the truths'
          > > 3. in my opinion, the word 'mata"m' is passive nominative. so the
          > > translation would be 'and the attainment of the truths, based on
          > practice,
          > > is known.'
          > >
          > > best regards
          > > Dhammadhiro
          > >
          > >
          > > aasavakkhayalaabhena, hoti saasanasampadaa.
          > > aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko..
          > >
          > > With the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas there is success
          > > in the Dispensation;
          > > and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas is caused by the
          > > attainment of the truths; 7
          > >
          > > saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
          > > pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya.naa..
          > >
          > > and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
          > > practice;
          > > and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
          > > scriptures.
          > >
          > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com> <Pali%
          > 40yahoogroups.com>, "Jim Anderson"
          > > <jimanderson.on@...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > The translation of verses 1 to 6 was first posted to the group on Feb.
          > > > 1 (see #13281). This posting continues on with verses 7 & 8. There was
          > > > some discussion of verse 8 during the discussion of the earlier
          > > > verses. I take these two verses as a compound sentence consisting of 4
          > > > coordinate clauses linked together with the particle 'ca'.
          > > >
          > > > aasavakkhayalaabhena, hoti saasanasampadaa.
          > > > aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko..
          > > >
          > > > With the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas there is success
          > > > in the Dispensation;
          > > > and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas is caused by the
          > > > attainment of the truths; 7
          > > >
          > > > saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
          > > > pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya.naa..
          > > >
          > > > and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
          > > > practice;
          > > > and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
          > > > scriptures. 8
          > > >
          > > > Note: 'pariyatti-' could also refer to the scriptures themselves (see
          > > > PED).
          > > >
          > > > Best wishes,
          > > > Jim
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • DC Wijeratna
          sabbapaapasssa akarana.m ..... eta.m�buddhaanasaasana.m The�meaning of saasaana, in the suttas, appears to be the�above--Advice. In later texts, the
          Message 4 of 16 , May 11, 2009
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            sabbapaapasssa akarana.m .....
            eta.m�buddhaanasaasana.m

            The�meaning of saasaana, in the suttas, appears to be the�above--Advice.
            In later texts, the meaning might have got expanded.
            �D. G. D. C. Wijeratna





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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