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Re: [Pali] Re: The New Pali Course Part III [5/120]

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Dear Yong Peng, reduplication is difficult. Your examples, and others show: desire to (do this or that) ... N: Viima.msa is another word for pa~n~naa.
    Message 1 of 18 , May 6, 2009
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      Dear Yong Peng,
      reduplication is difficult. Your examples, and others show: desire to
      (do this or that)
      Op 3-mei-2009, om 1:22 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:

      > > 4) manA (to think) before sa is changed to viima.m (through
      > > miima.m). vii + ma.m + sa + ti = viima.msati, investigates.
      -------
      N: Viima.msa is another word for pa~n~naa. Repeatedly considering,
      not just once. So, rightly there is a reference to repetition.
      ------
      Nina.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina, thank you. I recall a Chinese saying: 温故而知新,可以为师矣。This ancient proverb of wisdom has some deep meanings pertaining to
      Message 2 of 18 , May 7, 2009
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        Dear Nina,

        thank you. I recall a Chinese saying: 温故而知新,可以为师矣。This ancient proverb of wisdom has some deep meanings pertaining to Confucius' philosophy, which I am not going into, but just to make you aware of it. This proverb comes from the Chapter 2 Verse 11 of the Analects.

        http://www.confucius.org/lunyu/dd0211.htm

        The first five words 温故而知新 generally reflects the Chinese attitude towards learning, which I translate as: to make new discoveries from revising what was previously learnt. As such, I am always delighted to learn and share.

        I am currently revising the early chapters of Warder's so as to proceed to the middle chapters. I have not gone very far, and my Pali study now focuses on quality more than quantity. On the vocab list on Page 16, there are several examples of words derived from reduplication: ti.t.thati, dadaati, pajahati.

        We can apply what we have just learnt here.

        The root for pajahati is haa [Warder's page 16]

        Reduplication (of root): jahaa
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/13640

        Prefix: (p)pa + jahaa = pajahaa

        Suffix: pajahaa + ati = pajah(aa)ati > pajahati
        [extra aa elided as a result of Sandhi]

        In the grammatical index at the back of the book, it also shows other pages discussing reduplication, some of which are in the middle chapters. Hopefully, we get to discuss them later this year.


        metta,
        Yong Peng.



        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

        N: Viima.msa is another word for pa~n~naa. Repeatedly considering, not just once. So, rightly there is a reference to repetition.
      • DC Wijeratna
        Viima.msaa is one of the four iddhipaadas. That most probably is how it should be understood according to the suttas. Iddhipaadas are required for the
        Message 3 of 18 , May 10, 2009
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          Viima.msaa is one of the four iddhipaadas. That most probably is how it should be understood according to the suttas. Iddhipaadas are required for the attainment of the path, and is thus not exactly pa~n~naa. Pa~n~naa, when developed to a level that would allow one to attain the path appears to be viima.msaa.
          D. G. D. C. Wijeratna




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ong Yong Peng
          [6/120] The New Pali Course Part III (1950) Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera Chapter II Denominative Verbs (continue...) Suffix Cha (= t + sa = ccha)
          Message 4 of 18 , May 13, 2009
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            [6/120]

            The New Pali Course Part III (1950)
            Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera

            Chapter II Denominative Verbs

            (continue...)

            Suffix Cha (= t + sa = ccha)

            (1) kitA (to cure) before cha becomes cikic.

            * cikic + cha + ti = cikicchati, treats medically. This is very often seen as tikicchati, first c being changed to t.

            (2) gupA (to detest), before cha, becomes jiguc.

            * jiguc + cha + ti = jigucchati, becomes disgusted with

            (3) ghasA (to eat) becomes jighac.

            * jighac + cha + ti = jighacchati, desires to eat, or becomes hungry

            Suffix Kha (= j + sa = kkha)

            (1) bhujA (to eat) before kha becomes bubhuk.

            * bubhuk + kha + ti = bubhukkhati, desires to eat

            (2) tijA (to endure) becomes titik.

            * titik + kha + ti = titikkhati, endures or becomes patient

            Examples Group 13

            1. "Yo have balavaa santo dubbalassa titikkhati,
            Tam aahu parama.m khanti.m; nicca.m khamati dubbalo." [S.i,222]

            YP: "Whoever so, being powerful, (of) the weak endures,
            That has been called the highest forbearance;
            the weak endures always."

            2. "Addasaa kho, bhikkhave, Vepacitti Asurindo Sakka.m Devaanam-inda.m duurato va aagacchanta.m, disvaana Sakka.m Devaanam-inda.m etad avoca: 'Tikiccha ma.m Devaanam-indaa'ti." [S.i,238]

            YP: "As (he) saw indeed, O monks, Vepacitti the Asura chief, Sakka the Deva chief coming from afar, having seen Sakka the Deva chief, (he) said this: 'Cure me, Deva chief.'"

            3. "Seyyathaa pi naama phaalo divasa-santatto udake pakkhitto cicci.taayati, ci.tici.taayati, sandhuupaayati, sampadhuupaayati, evam eva so paayaaso udake pakkhitto cicci.taayati..." [S.i,169; SN14]

            YP: "Just as a ploughshare, heated for a day and thrown into the water, chit-chit, chit-chit, sends forth smoke and steam, just so the rice, thrown into the water, chit-chit..."

            ref: http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/synthesis/pali3.00.cdv

            (to be continued...)
          • Nina van Gorkom
            Dear Yong Peng, Thank you. ... N: Perhaps we can use the English onomatopae: hiss and sizzle. Nina. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 18 , May 15, 2009
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              Dear Yong Peng,
              Thank you.
              Op 13-mei-2009, om 18:40 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:

              > YP: "Just as a ploughshare, heated for a day and thrown into the
              > water, chit-chit, chit-chit, sends forth smoke and steam, just so
              > the rice, thrown into the water, chit-chit..."
              -------
              N: Perhaps we can use the English onomatopae: hiss and sizzle.
              Nina.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ong Yong Peng
              Dear Nina, thank you for your suggestions. Surely we can, and I believe that makes more sense to the modern English reader. metta, Yong Peng. ... Perhaps we
              Message 6 of 18 , May 16, 2009
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                Dear Nina,

                thank you for your suggestions. Surely we can, and I believe that makes more sense to the modern English reader.

                metta,
                Yong Peng.


                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

                > YP: "Just as a ploughshare, heated for a day and thrown into the
                > water, chit-chit, chit-chit, sends forth smoke and steam, just so
                > the rice, thrown into the water, chit-chit..."

                Perhaps we can use the English onomatopae: hiss and sizzle.
              • Ong Yong Peng
                [7/120] The New Pali Course Part III (1950) Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera Chapter II Denominative, Onomatopoetic and Desiderative Verbs
                Message 7 of 18 , May 27, 2009
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                  [7/120]

                  The New Pali Course Part III (1950)
                  Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera

                  Chapter II Denominative, Onomatopoetic and Desiderative Verbs

                  (continue...)

                  4. "Ath'eko lola-makka.to rukkhaa otaritvaa tassa pi.t.thi.m abhiruuhitvaa... na`ngu.t.the gahetvaa dolaayanto kii.li." [J.ii,385]

                  YP: "Thereupon, one mischievous monkey, getting down from the tree, climbing onto his back, holding (its) tail and swinging to and fro, played."

                  5. "Idh'uuragaana.m pavaro pavi.t.tho
                  Selassa va.n.nena pamokkham iccha.m;
                  Brahma~n ca va.n.na.m apacaayamaano
                  Bubhukkhito no visahaami bhottu.m." [J.ii,14]

                  YP: "Here entered the Naga-king
                  with the colour of sapphire, (I) wished for (his) safety;
                  And, respecting the brahmin's colour,
                  hungry, (I) do not dare to eat."

                  YP: iccha.m from icchati, apacaayamaano from apacaayati.

                  6. "Na ta.m yaace yassa piya.m jigi.mse;
                  Desso hoti atiyaacanaaya." [J.ii,285]

                  YP: "Him, of whom friendship (I) wish to acquire, (I) beg not;
                  Detestable, (one) is, from over-begging."

                  YP: yaace from yaacati, jigi.mse from jigi.msati.
                  YP: atiyaacanaa (f) over-begging.

                  7. "So Pu.n.nako kaamavegena giddho
                  Irandhati.m Naagaka~n~na.m jigi.msa.m
                  Gantvaana ta.m bhuutapati.m yasassi.m
                  Icc'abravii Vessava.na.m Kuvera.m." [J.vi,269]

                  YP: "That greedy Punnaka, with the impulse of lust
                  wishing to acquire Irandhati, the Naga maiden
                  went to that famous lord of Yakkhas
                  and called 'Vessavana Kuvera'."

                  YP: jigi.msa.m from jigi.msati, abravii from bruuti.

                  8. "Devo ca vassati, devo ca ga.la-ga.laayati,
                  Ekako caaha.m bherave bile viharaami." [Theg.v.189]

                  9. "Esa vaataahata-taalapa.n.na.m viya ta.ta-ta.taayati, imassa kathaaya pariyanto yeva natthii ti nindanti." [DhA.iii,328]

                  10. "Gu.navantaana~n hi gu.na.m Buddhaa eva paaka.ta.m kaatu.m sakkonti; avasesa jano gu.navantaana.m gu.na.m kathento maccharaayati." [DhA.ii,45]

                  11. "Ekam pi ce paa.na.m adu.t.thacitto
                  Mettaayatii kusalii tena hoti." [A.iv,151]

                  12. "Seyyathaa pi naama eka.m puggala.m duggata.m durupeta.m disvaa karu.naayeyya, evam eva sabbasatte karu.naaya pharati." [Vism.314. Vbh.273]

                  13. "Baalo putta-ta.nhaaya c'eva dhanata.nhaaya ca ha~n~nati, viha~n~nati, dukkhiiyati." [DhA.ii,28]

                  14. "Ima.m kho aha.m, Keva.t.ta, iddhipaa.tihaariye aadiinava.m sampassamaano iddhi-paa.tihaariyena a.t.tiyaami, haraayaami, jigucchaami." [D.i,213]

                  ref: http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/synthesis/pali3.00.cdv

                  (to be continued...)
                • Ong Yong Peng
                  [8/120] The New Pali Course Part III (1950) Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera Chapter II Denominative, Onomatopoetic and Desiderative Verbs
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 11, 2009
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                    [8/120]

                    The New Pali Course Part III (1950)
                    Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera

                    Chapter II Denominative, Onomatopoetic and Desiderative Verbs

                    (continue...)

                    15. "Daddabhaayati, bhaddante,
                    Yasmi.m dese vasaam'aha.m;
                    Aham p'eta.m na jaanaami
                    Kim eta.m daddabhaadyatii ti." [J.iii,77]

                    YP: "(It) clatters, sir,
                    In whichever spot I dwell;
                    This too I do not know
                    What (is) this (which) clatters?"

                    16. "So gehaa nikkhamitvaa... 'akkhiini me dhuumaayantii ti vatvaa nalaa.te hattha.m pati.t.thapetvaa uddha.m oloketvaa: 'Aho, dukkha.m! Ayyo no Mahaa-Kassapatthero cirassa.m me ku.tidvaara.m aagato; atthi nu kho ki~nci gehe?'ti aaha." [DhA.i,425]

                    YP: "He, having set forth from home... said 'my eyes smoke', placed (his) hand on (his) forehead, looked up, and said, 'Alas, trouble! At last, the venerable elder Maha-Kassapa come to the door of my shed now; is (there) anything in the house?'"

                    17. "Tena kho pana samayena dhuumaayitatta.m timiraayitatta.m gacchat'eva purima.m disa.m, gacchati pacchima.m disa.m." [S.iii,124]

                    YP: "At that time, the smoky cloud (and) mass of darkness moves so to the first quarter, (and) moves to the last quarter."

                    18. "So... tatth'eva vasanto taava pa.n.dita.m viima.matuu ti amaccassa duuta.m pa.tipesesi; ta.m sutvaa amacco atth'eva vasanto pa.n.dita.m viima.msi." [J.vi,334]

                    Glossary Group 13

                    1. Whosoever being powerful forgives the weaker one, this has been called the supreme forbearance. The weakling always forbears.

                    3. (a) Seyyathaa pi naama, just as.
                    (b) Phaalo...tatto, a ploughshare heated for a whole day.
                    (c) Sandhuupaayati, sampadhuupaayati, sends forth smoke and steam.

                    4. (a) Lola-makka.to, a mischievous monkey.
                    (b) Na`n...dolaayanto, holding its tail and swinging to and fro.

                    5. (a) Uragaana.m pavaro, the Naaga-king.
                    (b) Pamokkham iccha.m, wishing his safety.
                    (c) Selassa va.n.nena, having the colour of sapphire.

                    ref: http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/synthesis/pali3.00.cdv

                    (to be continued...)
                  • Ong Yong Peng
                    [9/120] The New Pali Course Part III (1950) Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera Chapter II Denominative, Onomatopoetic and Desiderative Verbs
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 24, 2009
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                      [9/120]

                      The New Pali Course Part III (1950)
                      Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera

                      Chapter II Denominative, Onomatopoetic and Desiderative Verbs

                      (continue...)

                      (d) Last two lines: "Though I am hungry I dare not eat (the Naaga) because I respect the brahman's colours."

                      When the Naaga was chased by a Garu.da the former hid under the cloak of a brahmin hermit. The Garu.da dared not remove the cloak and catch it as he honoured the brahmin.

                      6. Do not beg of him (something) whose friendship you like to have. One becomes detestful by over-begging.

                      7. (a) Jigi.msa.m, being desirous to gain.
                      (b) Bhuutapati, lord of demons.

                      9. Vaataa...viya, like a palmyra leaf agitated by the wind.

                      12. If, pure in heart, he befriends even a single being, he becomes a possessor of merit.

                      12. Durupeta, badly endowed.

                      13. Ha~n~nati, viha~n~nati, dukkhiiyati, becomes grieved, tormented and miserable.

                      14. Keva.t.ta, it is because I perceive this danger in the practice of mystic wonders, that I loathe, abhor, and am ashamed thereof.

                      15. Daddabhaayati, makes the sound 'dad-dad'.

                      16. Akkhiini me dhuumaayanti, my eyes are emitting smoke, i.e. my eyesight is not clear.

                      17. (a) Dhuumaayitatta.m, a smoky cloud.
                      (b) Timiraayitatta.m, a mass of darkness.

                      ref: http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/synthesis/pali3.00.cdv
                    • Ong Yong Peng
                      Dear friends, I spot a typo as follows: 18. So... tatth eva vasanto taava pa.n.dita.m viima.msatuu ti amaccassa duuta.m pa.tipesesi; ta.m sutvaa amacco
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 24, 2009
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                        Dear friends,

                        I spot a typo as follows:

                        18. "So... tatth'eva vasanto taava pa.n.dita.m viima.msatuu"ti amaccassa duuta.m pa.tipesesi; ta.m sutvaa amacco tatth'eva vasanto pa.n.dita.m viima.msi.

                        YP: "He... as long as (he is) dwelling on that spot, let him consider the wise"; having heard that, the councillor dwelling on that spot considered the wise.

                        metta,
                        Yong Peng.


                        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ong Yong Peng wrote:

                        > 18. "So... tatth'eva vasanto taava pa.n.dita.m viima.matuu ti amaccassa duuta.m pa.tipesesi; ta.m sutvaa amacco atth'eva vasanto pa.n.dita.m viima.msi." [J.vi,334]
                      • Ong Yong Peng
                        Dear friends, a few more of my attempts. 8. Devo ca vassati, devo ca ga.la-ga.laayati, Ekako caaha.m bherave bile viharaami. [Theg.v.189] YP: Heaven pours,
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 24, 2009
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                          Dear friends,

                          a few more of my attempts.

                          8. "Devo ca vassati, devo ca ga.la-ga.laayati,
                          Ekako caaha.m bherave bile viharaami." [Theg.v.189]

                          YP: "Heaven pours, heaven roars,
                          Alone, I dwell, in the frightening hole."

                          9. "Esa vaataahata-taalapa.n.na.m viya ta.ta-ta.taayati, imassa kathaaya pariyanto yeva natthii ti nindanti."

                          YP: "Just as this palm leaf struck by the wind, ta.tat-ta.tat, there is also no end of this speech," (they) scorn.


                          metta,
                          Yong Peng.



                          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ong Yong Peng wrote:

                          8. "Devo ca vassati, devo ca ga.la-ga.laayati,
                          Ekako caaha.m bherave bile viharaami." [Theg.v.189]

                          9. "Esa vaataahata-taalapa.n.na.m viya ta.ta-ta.taayati, imassa kathaaya pariyanto yeva natthii ti nindanti." [DhA.iii,328]
                        • Nina van Gorkom
                          Dear Yong Peng, ... N: I like the poetical translation here. ... N: This is very amusing. Nina. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 24, 2009
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                            Dear Yong Peng,
                            Op 24-jun-2009, om 13:22 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:

                            > YP: "Heaven pours, heaven roars,
                            > Alone, I dwell, in the frightening hole."
                            ------
                            N: I like the poetical translation here.
                            ------
                            >
                            > 9. "Esa vaataahata-taalapa.n.na.m viya ta.ta-ta.taayati, imassa
                            > kathaaya pariyanto yeva natthii ti nindanti."
                            >
                            > YP: "Just as this palm leaf struck by the wind, ta.tat-ta.tat,
                            > there is also no end of this speech," (they) scorn.
                            -------
                            N: This is very amusing.
                            Nina.



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Ong Yong Peng
                            Dear Nina, thank you. I hope these will be helpful to all Pali students. metta, Yong Peng. ... N: I like the poetical translation here.
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 26, 2009
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                              Dear Nina,

                              thank you. I hope these will be helpful to all Pali students.

                              metta,
                              Yong Peng.


                              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

                              > YP: "Heaven pours, heaven roars,
                              > Alone, I dwell, in the frightening hole."

                              N: I like the poetical translation here.
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