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Saddniiti: introductory verses 7 & 8

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  • Jim Anderson
    The translation of verses 1 to 6 was first posted to the group on Feb. 1 (see #13281). This posting continues on with verses 7 & 8. There was some discussion
    Message 1 of 16 , May 4, 2009
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      The translation of verses 1 to 6 was first posted to the group on Feb.
      1 (see #13281). This posting continues on with verses 7 & 8. There was
      some discussion of verse 8 during the discussion of the earlier
      verses. I take these two verses as a compound sentence consisting of 4
      coordinate clauses linked together with the particle 'ca'.

      aasavakkhayalaabhena, hoti saasanasampadaa.
      aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko..

      With the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas there is success
      in the Dispensation;
      and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas is caused by the
      attainment of the truths; 7

      saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
      pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya.naa..

      and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
      practice;
      and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
      scriptures. 8

      Note: 'pariyatti-' could also refer to the scriptures themselves (see
      PED).

      Best wishes,
      Jim
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear Jim, thank you. I like it that we have the three here together: pariyatti, and from pariyatti follows pa.tipatti and from pa.tipatti pa.tivedha, the
      Message 2 of 16 , May 4, 2009
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        Dear Jim,
        thank you. I like it that we have the three here together: pariyatti,
        and from pariyatti follows pa.tipatti and from pa.tipatti pa.tivedha,
        the attainment of the truth.
        Pariyatti: the note of PED: yes, but actually it is more. We listen
        and consider the teaching about the present reality, and pariyatti is
        not mere theory, it relates to the present reality, such as seeing
        now, visible object now. This is the way to eventually understand
        these as non-self.
        Nina.
        Op 4-mei-2009, om 16:38 heeft Jim Anderson het volgende geschreven:

        > saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
        > pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya.naa..
        >
        > and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
        > practice;
        > and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
        > scriptures. 8
        >
        > Note: 'pariyatti-' could also refer to the scriptures themselves (see
        > PED).



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • SJ Garette
        I notice the use of m. what does this m. mean in Pali, masculine or plural?   Greetings,   Jade ... From: Jim Anderson Subject:
        Message 3 of 16 , May 4, 2009
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          I notice the use of m. what does this "m." mean in Pali, masculine or plural?
           
          Greetings,
           
          Jade

          --- On Mon, 5/4/09, Jim Anderson <jimanderson.on@...> wrote:


          From: Jim Anderson <jimanderson.on@...>
          Subject: [Pali] Saddniiti: introductory verses 7 & 8
          To: pali@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 7:38 AM








          The translation of verses 1 to 6 was first posted to the group on Feb.
          1 (see #13281). This posting continues on with verses 7 & 8. There was
          some discussion of verse 8 during the discussion of the earlier
          verses. I take these two verses as a compound sentence consisting of 4
          coordinate clauses linked together with the particle 'ca'.

          aasavakkhayalaabhen a, hoti saasanasampadaa.
          aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko ..

          With the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas there is success
          in the Dispensation;
          and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas is caused by the
          attainment of the truths; 7

          saccaadhigamana. m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita. m mata.m.
          pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya. naa..

          and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
          practice;
          and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
          scriptures. 8

          Note: 'pariyatti-' could also refer to the scriptures themselves (see
          PED).

          Best wishes,
          Jim



















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jim Anderson
          Dear Nina, ... is ... Pariyatti is a term I often seem to have trouble understanding. It is related to the verb pariyaapu.naati -- to fully acquire or master
          Message 4 of 16 , May 4, 2009
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            Dear Nina,

            > Pariyatti: the note of PED: yes, but actually it is more. We listen
            > and consider the teaching about the present reality, and pariyatti
            is
            > not mere theory, it relates to the present reality, such as seeing
            > now, visible object now. This is the way to eventually understand
            > these as non-self.

            Pariyatti is a term I often seem to have trouble understanding. It is
            related to the verb 'pariyaapu.naati' -- to fully acquire or master
            (the scriptures). Verses 9 to 12 describe the process of going from
            pariyatti to the supramundane state. At the beginning of verse 9 there
            is the term 'pariyattabhiyuttaana.m' which I think means: of/for
            experts in the scriptures who understand the characteristic of the
            language. Verse 10 then goes on to describe the vi~n~nuus who
            understand the meaning of the scriptures, and finally in verses 11 &
            12 we meet the sappa~n~nas who follow the path and go on to reach the
            supramundane. Pariyatti is where we start, I think, and it relates to
            getting to the point where we don't get confused about the letters and
            the words and are able to focus more and more on the meaning of the
            Buddha's teachings.

            Best wishes,
            Jim
          • Mahinda Palihawadana
            ... Dear Jim, I would take mata.m as a PPP serving the function of a verb. Grammatically saccaadhigama.m .... mata.m (hoti). The meaning would be The
            Message 5 of 16 , May 5, 2009
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              On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Jim Anderson <jimanderson.on@...>wrote:

              >
              >
              > saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
              > .
              >
              > and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
              > practice
              >

              Dear Jim,
              I would take mata.m as a PPP serving the function of a verb. Grammatically
              "saccaadhigama.m .... mata.m (hoti)." The meaning would be "The attainment
              of truths is known (or regarded or understood) to be based on practice."

              Regards.

              Mahinda



              >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mahinda Palihawadana
              ... Why? The commentaries are quite clear on this word.Search the CSCD under pariyattiiti and you will get a number of defining references. Most of them say
              Message 6 of 16 , May 5, 2009
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                On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Jim Anderson <jimanderson.on@...>wrote:

                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Pariyatti is a term I often seem to have trouble understanding.
                >

                Why? The commentaries are quite clear on this word.Search the CSCD under
                'pariyattiiti' and you will get a number of defining references. Most of
                them say "pariyattiiti tii.ni pi.takaani". A comment in Anguttara
                Commentary goes further and says that Pariyatti means the three Pitakas
                plus the commentaries. It is an entirely Buddhist usage. The Sanskrit
                equivalent paryaapti is not used in this sense in Hindu literature.
                PTSD has a fair explanation of the evolution of the term, from 'mastery' to
                "what is matered". (In olden times learning by heart and what has been
                learnt by heart.)

                Mahinda


                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jim Anderson
                Dear Jade, I assume you re referring to .m . It is the niggahiita -- the
                Message 7 of 16 , May 5, 2009
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                  Dear Jade,

                  << I notice the use of m. what does this "m." mean in Pali, masculine
                  or plural?>>

                  I assume you're referring to ".m". It is the niggahiita -- the 41st or
                  last letter of the Pali alphabet. It is equivalent to the m with an
                  underdot as seen in unicode. For representing the m with an overdot
                  you can type "m which is also another way to represent the niggahiita.

                  << saccaadhigamana. m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita. m mata.m.
                  pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya. naa..>>

                  It seems that some spaces somehow got inserted after the period in the
                  digital transmission.

                  Best wishes,
                  Jim
                • Jim Anderson
                  Dear Mahinda, Thank you for your interpretation of mata.m as a PPP which you also suggested in message #13355, Feb. 24. The problem I have with it is the
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 5, 2009
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                    Dear Mahinda,

                    Thank you for your interpretation of 'mata.m' as a PPP which you also
                    suggested in message #13355, Feb. 24. The problem I have with it is
                    the need to insert "to be" (not found in the Pali) in order for the
                    PPP to function grammatically. I still think that taking 'mata.m' as
                    an action-noun in the neuter has some justification (it is possible to
                    have two or more valid interpretatons of the same Pali word like the
                    'suta.m' in 'eva.m me suta.m'. In Cone's entry for 'adhigama' some of
                    the other meanings given besides 'attainment' are 'understanding' and
                    'realisation' -- so I don't think it's incorrect to state that the
                    attainment of the truths is an understanding. Although Aggava.msa has
                    'saccaadhigamana.m' in v. 8a, I think the meaning can be taken as
                    exactly the same as the 'saccaadhigama-' in v. 7d.

                    Best wishes,
                    Jim


                    > > saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
                    > > .
                    > >
                    > > and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
                    > > practice
                    > >
                    >
                    > Dear Jim,
                    > I would take mata.m as a PPP serving the function of a verb.
                    Grammatically
                    > "saccaadhigama.m .... mata.m (hoti)." The meaning would be "The
                    attainment
                    > of truths is known (or regarded or understood) to be based on
                    practice."
                    >
                    > Regards.
                    >
                    > Mahinda
                  • dhammadhiro
                    would you please me to give some advice 1. what is the meaning of dispensation. is it the translation of saasana? in my understanding the word saasana is
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 5, 2009
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                      would you please me to give some advice
                      1. what is the meaning of dispensation. is it the translation of saasana? in my understanding the word saasana is buddha's teaching in general that is Dhammavinaya. does 'Dispensation' mean that sense?
                      2. in my understanding, the meaning of 'aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko' is rather to be 'and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas caused (or: lead to) the attainment of the truths'
                      3. in my opinion, the word 'mata"m' is passive nominative. so the translation would be 'and the attainment of the truths, based on practice, is known.'

                      best regards
                      Dhammadhiro


                      aasavakkhayalaabhena, hoti saasanasampadaa.
                      aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko..

                      With the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas there is success
                      in the Dispensation;
                      and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas is caused by the
                      attainment of the truths; 7

                      saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
                      pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya.naa..

                      and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
                      practice;
                      and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
                      scriptures.





                      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Anderson" <jimanderson.on@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The translation of verses 1 to 6 was first posted to the group on Feb.
                      > 1 (see #13281). This posting continues on with verses 7 & 8. There was
                      > some discussion of verse 8 during the discussion of the earlier
                      > verses. I take these two verses as a compound sentence consisting of 4
                      > coordinate clauses linked together with the particle 'ca'.
                      >
                      > aasavakkhayalaabhena, hoti saasanasampadaa.
                      > aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko..
                      >
                      > With the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas there is success
                      > in the Dispensation;
                      > and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas is caused by the
                      > attainment of the truths; 7
                      >
                      > saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
                      > pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya.naa..
                      >
                      > and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
                      > practice;
                      > and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
                      > scriptures. 8
                      >
                      > Note: 'pariyatti-' could also refer to the scriptures themselves (see
                      > PED).
                      >
                      > Best wishes,
                      > Jim
                      >
                    • Mahinda Palihawadana
                      ... Dear Jim, But even in the example you quote eva.m me suta.m , isn t the verb to be not implied, although it is not physically there? Another common
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 5, 2009
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                        On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 5:53 AM, Jim Anderson <jimanderson.on@...>wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > Dear Mahinda,
                        >
                        > Thank you for your interpretation of 'mata.m' as a PPP which you also
                        > suggested in message #13355, Feb. 24. The problem I have with it is
                        > the need to insert "to be" (not found in the Pali) in order for the
                        > PPP to function grammatically.
                        >

                        Dear Jim,

                        But even in the example you quote "eva.m me suta.m", isn't the verb 'to be'
                        not implied, although it is not 'physically' there? Another common example
                        is kata.m kara.niiya.m :"done (is) what has to done".

                        Certainly, there can be different interpretations. I only indicated what
                        seems to me to be the more likely sense.

                        Sorry I forgot all about the earlier communication. Apologies - and regards.

                        Mahinda

                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Nina van Gorkom
                        Dear Jim, Thank you for elaborating on pariyatti. I could add just a few more thoughts. ... N: I am glad with this word derivation. I did not know. ... N:
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 6, 2009
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                          Dear Jim,
                          Thank you for elaborating on pariyatti. I could add just a few more
                          thoughts.
                          Op 5-mei-2009, om 4:29 heeft Jim Anderson het volgende geschreven:
                          > Pariyatti is a term I often seem to have trouble understanding. It is
                          > related to the verb 'pariyaapu.naati' -- to fully acquire or master
                          > (the scriptures).
                          -------
                          N: I am glad with this word derivation. I did not know.
                          -------
                          > J: Pariyatti is where we start, I think, and it relates to
                          > getting to the point where we don't get confused about the letters and
                          > the words and are able to focus more and more on the meaning of the
                          > Buddha's teachings.
                          --------
                          N: Perhaps knowing the letter and the meaning (the letter and the
                          spirit). With yoniso manasikaara.
                          --------
                          > J: Verses 9 to 12 describe the process of going from
                          > pariyatti to the supramundane state. At the beginning of verse 9 there
                          > is the term 'pariyattabhiyuttaana.m' which I think means: of/for
                          > experts in the scriptures who understand the characteristic of the
                          > language.
                          --------
                          N: True, we are dependent on language, on words to understand the
                          teachings. For instance, we read about cakkhu dhaatu, ruupa dhaatu,
                          cakkhuvi~n~naa.na dhaatu. When I hear the word characteristic,
                          lakkha.na, I think of direct experience, not having to name
                          realities. There has to be yoniso manasikaara of the actual seeing
                          and visible object in order to become vi~n~nuu, someone with
                          understanding. What is seen, visible object, is only a dhaatu, not a
                          person. But it takes long to truly realize this. Pariyatti is
                          difficult for all of us. We keep on perceiving persons the whole day.
                          But that is thinking, not seeing.
                          ---------
                          > J: Verse 10 then goes on to describe the vi~n~nuus who
                          > understand the meaning of the scriptures, and finally in verses 11 &
                          > 12 we meet the sappa~n~nas who follow the path and go on to reach the
                          > supramundane.
                          --------
                          N:I like your description. Thus, pariyatti is more than just reading
                          the scriptures, what is met with in the texts has to be related to
                          our life now. Only thus pariyatti can develop into pa.tipatti, the
                          practice of vipassanaa/satipa.t.thaana.

                          Nina.



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jim Anderson
                          Dear Dhammadhiro, ...
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 6, 2009
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                            Dear Dhammadhiro,

                            > would you please me to give some advice

                            << 1. what is the meaning of dispensation. is it the translation of
                            saasana? in my understanding the word saasana is buddha's teaching in
                            general that is Dhammavinaya. does 'Dispensation' mean that sense? >>

                            Yes, 'dispensation' is the translation for 'saasana'. This came about
                            from Mahinda's suggestion of 'for the benefit of the Dispensation'
                            rather than my 'for the benefit of the Teaching' for 'saasanattha.m'
                            in verse 6. ~Na.namoli also translates 'dispensation' for 'saasana' in
                            his Path of Purification', I agree that 'dispensation' is rather odd
                            and we need to come up with something better. And 'Teachings' does
                            sound better. 'Dispensation' seems to suggest the dispensing of the
                            teachings like a chemist dispensing medicine.

                            << 2. in my understanding, the meaning of 'aasavakkhayalaabho ca,
                            saccaadhigamahetuko' is rather to be 'and the obtainment of the
                            destruction of the aasavas caused (or: lead to) the attainment of the
                            truths' >>

                            My feeling is that this would upset the order from top to bottom. It
                            would be more plausible if saccaadhigama were placed first but we have
                            aasavakkhayalabha instead. Also, keep in mind the term 'khii.naasavo'
                            for one whose aasavas are destroyed. I don't think I've ever come
                            acroos the term 'saccaadhigato' as a term for one who has arruved at
                            the truths.

                            << 3. in my opinion, the word 'mata"m' is passive nominative. so the
                            translation would be 'and the attainment of the truths, based on
                            practice, is known.' >>

                            Okay, I'll keep that one in mind.

                            Best wishes,
                            Jim
                          • Jim Anderson
                            Dear Mahinda, Thank-you for the clarification. I was aware of some of the commentarial definitions of pariyatti and had even posted the following from the
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 6, 2009
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                              Dear Mahinda,

                              Thank-you for the clarification. I was aware of some of the
                              commentarial definitions of 'pariyatti' and had even posted the
                              following from the .tiikaa on Abh 784 a few months ago:

                              "pariyatti pariyaapu.nitabbaa vinayaabhidhammasuttantaa." = "pariyatti
                              is the vinaya, abhidhamma, & suttanta to be learnt or fully-mastered".

                              My problem lies with translations such as 'scriptural learning' (you
                              did translate it as 'textual learning') and I find this rather
                              different from it being translated simply as 'the scriptures' or 'the
                              texts'. I'm considering changing my translation of verse 8d from:
                              "supported by competence in the scriptures." to "supported by the
                              Scriptures." (i.e the teachings as preserved in the Scriptures or the
                              Tipi.taka).

                              Jim

                              > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Jim Anderson
                              <jimanderson.on@...>wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Pariyatti is a term I often seem to have trouble understanding.
                              > >
                              >
                              > Why? The commentaries are quite clear on this word.Search the CSCD
                              under
                              > 'pariyattiiti' and you will get a number of defining references.
                              Most of
                              > them say "pariyattiiti tii.ni pi.takaani". A comment in Anguttara
                              > Commentary goes further and says that Pariyatti means the three
                              Pitakas
                              > plus the commentaries. It is an entirely Buddhist usage. The
                              Sanskrit
                              > equivalent paryaapti is not used in this sense in Hindu literature.
                              > PTSD has a fair explanation of the evolution of the term, from
                              'mastery' to
                              > "what is matered". (In olden times learning by heart and what has
                              been
                              > learnt by heart.)
                              >
                              > Mahinda
                            • P G Dave
                              *re. saasana *I would think saasana expresses a combination of the three concepts of teaching, training and discipline. I can t think of a perfect synonym in
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 7, 2009
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                                *re. saasana

                                *I would think "saasana" expresses a combination of the three concepts of
                                teaching, training and discipline.
                                I can't think of a perfect synonym in english.

                                metta,
                                PG

                                On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:12 AM, dhammadhiro <dhammadhiro@...> wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > would you please me to give some advice
                                > 1. what is the meaning of dispensation. is it the translation of saasana?
                                > in my understanding the word saasana is buddha's teaching in general that is
                                > Dhammavinaya. does 'Dispensation' mean that sense?
                                > 2. in my understanding, the meaning of 'aasavakkhayalaabho ca,
                                > saccaadhigamahetuko' is rather to be 'and the obtainment of the destruction
                                > of the aasavas caused (or: lead to) the attainment of the truths'
                                > 3. in my opinion, the word 'mata"m' is passive nominative. so the
                                > translation would be 'and the attainment of the truths, based on practice,
                                > is known.'
                                >
                                > best regards
                                > Dhammadhiro
                                >
                                >
                                > aasavakkhayalaabhena, hoti saasanasampadaa.
                                > aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko..
                                >
                                > With the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas there is success
                                > in the Dispensation;
                                > and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas is caused by the
                                > attainment of the truths; 7
                                >
                                > saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
                                > pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya.naa..
                                >
                                > and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
                                > practice;
                                > and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
                                > scriptures.
                                >
                                > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jim Anderson"
                                > <jimanderson.on@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > The translation of verses 1 to 6 was first posted to the group on Feb.
                                > > 1 (see #13281). This posting continues on with verses 7 & 8. There was
                                > > some discussion of verse 8 during the discussion of the earlier
                                > > verses. I take these two verses as a compound sentence consisting of 4
                                > > coordinate clauses linked together with the particle 'ca'.
                                > >
                                > > aasavakkhayalaabhena, hoti saasanasampadaa.
                                > > aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko..
                                > >
                                > > With the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas there is success
                                > > in the Dispensation;
                                > > and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas is caused by the
                                > > attainment of the truths; 7
                                > >
                                > > saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
                                > > pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya.naa..
                                > >
                                > > and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
                                > > practice;
                                > > and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
                                > > scriptures. 8
                                > >
                                > > Note: 'pariyatti-' could also refer to the scriptures themselves (see
                                > > PED).
                                > >
                                > > Best wishes,
                                > > Jim
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Lennart Lopin
                                Gospel (literally) ...if that word would not carry such a specific Christian context, it would be a perfect fit, see below... ========================== PED:
                                Message 15 of 16 , May 8, 2009
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                                  "Gospel" (literally)

                                  ...if that word would not carry such a specific Christian context, it would
                                  be a perfect fit, see below...


                                  ==========================
                                  PED:
                                  ....susāsanaŋ dussānaŋ J i.239 (English transl.: "true and false doctrine,"
                                  "good and bad news")....
                                  http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/contextualize.pl?p.4.pali.35009

                                  Etym of gospel:
                                  O.E. godspel "good news," from god "good" + spel "story, message,"
                                  translation of L. bona adnuntiatio, itself a translation of Gk.
                                  euangelion "reward
                                  for bringing good news." First element of the O.E. word had a long "o," but
                                  it shifted under mistaken assoc. with God. Gospel-gossip was Addison's word
                                  ("Spectator," 1711) for "one who is always talking of sermons, texts, etc."
                                  http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gospel
                                  =============================================

                                  This would capture

                                  a.) Teaching
                                  b.) Message (worthy)
                                  c.) Training, a message to be put in practice
                                  d.) qualities of a "dispensation", "tradition" even "religion"

                                  ...but not really a serious consideration, given the many associations which
                                  people follow first, rather than thinking of a words etymology, :-)

                                  Lennart

                                  On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 1:08 AM, P G Dave <pgd2507@...> wrote:

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > *re. saasana
                                  >
                                  > *I would think "saasana" expresses a combination of the three concepts of
                                  > teaching, training and discipline.
                                  > I can't think of a perfect synonym in english.
                                  >
                                  > metta,
                                  > PG
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:12 AM, dhammadhiro <dhammadhiro@...<dhammadhiro%40yahoo.com>>
                                  > wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > would you please me to give some advice
                                  > > 1. what is the meaning of dispensation. is it the translation of saasana?
                                  > > in my understanding the word saasana is buddha's teaching in general that
                                  > is
                                  > > Dhammavinaya. does 'Dispensation' mean that sense?
                                  > > 2. in my understanding, the meaning of 'aasavakkhayalaabho ca,
                                  > > saccaadhigamahetuko' is rather to be 'and the obtainment of the
                                  > destruction
                                  > > of the aasavas caused (or: lead to) the attainment of the truths'
                                  > > 3. in my opinion, the word 'mata"m' is passive nominative. so the
                                  > > translation would be 'and the attainment of the truths, based on
                                  > practice,
                                  > > is known.'
                                  > >
                                  > > best regards
                                  > > Dhammadhiro
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > aasavakkhayalaabhena, hoti saasanasampadaa.
                                  > > aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko..
                                  > >
                                  > > With the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas there is success
                                  > > in the Dispensation;
                                  > > and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas is caused by the
                                  > > attainment of the truths; 7
                                  > >
                                  > > saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
                                  > > pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya.naa..
                                  > >
                                  > > and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
                                  > > practice;
                                  > > and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
                                  > > scriptures.
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com> <Pali%
                                  > 40yahoogroups.com>, "Jim Anderson"
                                  > > <jimanderson.on@...> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The translation of verses 1 to 6 was first posted to the group on Feb.
                                  > > > 1 (see #13281). This posting continues on with verses 7 & 8. There was
                                  > > > some discussion of verse 8 during the discussion of the earlier
                                  > > > verses. I take these two verses as a compound sentence consisting of 4
                                  > > > coordinate clauses linked together with the particle 'ca'.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > aasavakkhayalaabhena, hoti saasanasampadaa.
                                  > > > aasavakkhayalaabho ca, saccaadhigamahetuko..
                                  > > >
                                  > > > With the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas there is success
                                  > > > in the Dispensation;
                                  > > > and the obtainment of the destruction of the aasavas is caused by the
                                  > > > attainment of the truths; 7
                                  > > >
                                  > > > saccaadhigamana.m ta~nca, pa.tipattissita.m mata.m.
                                  > > > pa.tipatti ca saa kaama.m, pariyattiparaaya.naa..
                                  > > >
                                  > > > and the attainment of the truths is an understanding based on
                                  > > > practice;
                                  > > > and the practice surely is supported by competence in the
                                  > > > scriptures. 8
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Note: 'pariyatti-' could also refer to the scriptures themselves (see
                                  > > > PED).
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Best wishes,
                                  > > > Jim
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • DC Wijeratna
                                  sabbapaapasssa akarana.m ..... eta.m�buddhaanasaasana.m The�meaning of saasaana, in the suttas, appears to be the�above--Advice. In later texts, the
                                  Message 16 of 16 , May 11, 2009
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                                    sabbapaapasssa akarana.m .....
                                    eta.m�buddhaanasaasana.m

                                    The�meaning of saasaana, in the suttas, appears to be the�above--Advice.
                                    In later texts, the meaning might have got expanded.
                                    �D. G. D. C. Wijeratna





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