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Re: [Pali] Re: Buddha and the present moment.

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  • Kumara Bhikkhu
    I know this is a very late response, but anyway here it is Thanks for the relevant quote. U Tejaniya has been my main meditation teacher since 2000 when I went
    Message 1 of 37 , Apr 21, 2009
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      I know this is a very late response, but anyway here it is

      Thanks for the relevant quote. U Tejaniya has been my main meditation teacher since 2000 when I went to his meditation center. FYI, the effort to produce a revised edition of the book is now in my hands. Nothing new. Just checking through the Pali words and add diacritics.


      flrobert2000 wrote thus at 09:23 AM 31-03-09:
      >Dear Kumara Bhikkhu,
      >Thank you for reminding this important fact which is quite obvious but which seems to be overlooked by many meditators. There's really no need in trying to repress our thoughts, whether their contents are good or bad, but one should rather try to observe the fact that there is thinking happening in this very moment. I would like to cite the following answer made by U Tejaniya (a Vipassana meditation teacher here in Myanmar who has a different approach from the traditional Burmese way) to a Yogi about the awareness of thinking (from his excellent book "Awareness alone is not enough"):
      >"Most people have very little practice in recognizing thoughts, i.e. in acknowledging that a thought is happening and in remaining aware of the thought. What most people are used to is focusing on thoughts in order to make them disappear.
      >I advise beginners to simply recognize a thought, to just acknowledge it and then bring their attention to whatever object they had been observing before. Doing this grounds them again. Watching the thought continuously would suck them in the story. You can try yourself by doing this over and over again; recognize that a thought is happening and bring your attention to whatever else you had been observing. This builds up awareness. But once you get involved in the story in some way, you will get lost."
      >Once you have some practice in recognizing thoughts in this way, you can ask yourself the question: Do I see that this is a thought or do I recognize that this is the mind?
      >The contents of what you are thinking might be about the past or the future but the mind arises in the present moment only. We often use the expression `wandering mind' which seems to suggest that the mind has wandered away, has moved somewhere. The truth is, however, that the mind does not go anywhere; the mind is only happening here and now. All it does is arise and pass away. A thought about someone far away or about an event in the past or the future is simply a thought that has arisen here and now. Awareness alone can only recognize that a thought is happening. But when there is a realization of the nature of thoughts, when there is some understanding, wisdom can see that this is only the mind.
      >You can look at thoughts from many different perspectives. You may realize that this thought is just the mind, that it is a defilement, that it is important or unimportant, or that it is wholesome or unwholesome."
      >Sorry for this long quote, but I thought it could be really useful to those who practice vipassana meditation.
      >With metta,
    • Piya Tan
      Dharma Friends, I want to address only one interesting point, that is, Stefan s remark about difficulty of watching the present moment. The main difficulty
      Message 37 of 37 , Sep 17, 2013
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        Dharma Friends,
        I want to address only one interesting point, that is, Stefan's remark about difficulty of watching the "present moment."
        The main difficulty here is that we are watching the "views" of the present moment, watching them as contents, rather than as process itself.
        If we watch the process, then all we see the rise and fall. (Emphasis is on "see" not "note," although this term can be helpful in its right context.)
        If we keep watching the rise and fall of the mind, then the mind should be able to calm itself in due course.
        Indeed, if we reflect on M 131, "past" and "future" are simply our views of them, We think that thought A is something about the past, thought B is about the future. These "past" and "future" are themselves concepts, not helpful here. In meditation, we need to clear the mind of all views, but gently (we cannot wish for it). Just let go. (See SD 40a.1)
        The "present" is our mental directing to whatever is going on, the passing of mental events, if you like. This is the so called "present moment awareness" (useful concept but don't get caught up with its philosophy).
        Dh 348 does not contradict M 131, but speaks in another way, reminding us that even the present moment should not be taken as a view. Let that go, too. M 131 lists the 15 wrong views, which is a sort of abridged version of the 16 doubts mentioned in M 2 (Sabbasava Sutta), etc (see Intro to SD 8.9). The 16 doubts deal with past, present and future: let go of all such thoughts in meditation.
        The 15 wrong-view method of M 131 exhorts us to let go of the past and future. For the present, we regard the 5 aggregates (one by one or as necessary) as impermanent.
        The bottom line is that we need to let go of all conceiving and thinking. Only when the mind if free from thoughts will the hindrances go away. Even if dhyana cannot be attained, the momentary stillness is itself of such profound joy. We use this to study the suttas, which are very useful in our understanding of meditation theory.
        I have two offerings, a translation of M 131 (SD 8.9) and an essay, "Notion of di.t.thi" (SD 40a.1), about letting go of views. Contact me offline if you want these files. Taste the joy of meditation, and the suttas becomes clearer. Enjoy the suttas, and meditation theory becomes easier.
        Hope this is helpful.
        With metta and mudita,

        On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:

        Dear stefan_karpik,

        One word for now/present in Pali is
        "paccuppanna", which can be literally translated as "just occurred".


        wrote thus at 06:37 PM 20-08-13:
        >Dear PG,
        >I wonder if 4 years is a record delay on this group!
        >As I have found the attempt to focus on the present moment unhelpful in
        >my own meditation practice, I've had my doubts that the Buddha ever
        >referred to living in the moment or awareness of the present moment or
        >present moment awareness. My problems are: sometimes the mind works so
        >fast that the experience I am being aware of has gone by the time I am
        >aware of it; also, if the past or future is in awareness now, I don't
        >see that present moment awareness adds anything to my practice. I was
        >tying myself in knots trying to achieve present-moment awareness that
        >made any difference.
        >I think Dhammapada Verse 348. Reaching The Further Shore, advises
        >against present moment awareness:
        >Let go before, let go the after,
        >let go the middle, beyond the becoming.
        >With mind released in every way
        >you'll come no more to birth, decay.
        >348. muñca pure muñca pacchato, majjhe muñca bhavassa
        >pÄ ragÅ«.
        > sabbattha vimuttamÄ naso, na punaṃ jÄ tijaraṃ
        >Here I am taking 'majjhe' as meaning what is between the present and
        >past, i.e. the present moment, which Joseph Goldstein does.
        >Joseph Goldstein in the first 10 minutes of his Talk 21 of the
        >Satipatthana series examines the advantages and disadvantages of present
        >moment awareness and concludes that he does not want a construct like
        >'present moment', he wants reality.
        ><http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/96/talk/300/> This where I got the
        >Dhammapada quote from.
        >Christopher Titmuss critiques present moment awareness in Dharma Enews
        >12 August 2007 in "Is the Now a lot of hype?"
        >So does Georges Dreyfus in "Is mindfulness present-centred and
        >There seems to be a view around of the Buddha as a kind of ancient
        >Eckhart Tolle and some translations seem to support this. Bhikkhu Bodhi
        >regularly translates 'dhammo.....sandit.t.hiko' as 'the dhamma visible
        >here and now' eg MLDB page 358 MN 38.25. However, 'sandit.t.hiko' is
        >literally 'completely visiible', which I interpret as 'obvious',
        >'transparent', 'open'; there is certainly no 'here' or 'now in the Pali.
        >Now I have used Dhp 348 to say the Buddha did not advocate present
        >moment awareness, but others in this group have used MN 131
        >Bhaddekaratta Sutta to claim the opposite. !f you look closely, there is
        >an ambiguity; the translation of 'paccuppannam' as 'presently-arisen'
        >(MLDB page 1039) can mean (1) 'present in awareness' or (2) ' in
        >present-moment awareness', as the English 'present' can refer to
        >existence or to time; meaning (1) supports my stance against present
        >moment awareness and meaning (2) supports the opposite! To be honest,
        >given Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of 'sandit.t.hiko', I think he
        >intended meaning (2), but did the Buddha? The PED gives for
        >'paccuppanna' 'what has arisen (just now), existing, present (as opposed
        >to .. past and... future)', but still I doubt: PED gives the derivation
        >of 'paccuppanna' as 'pat.i + uppajjati' and the article on 'pat.i' does
        >not offer the meaning 'now' and only offers 'again' in a temporal sense;
        >so I wonder if the PED inadvertently slipped from meaning (1),
        >'existent', to meaning (2), 'present-moment', never imagining that a
        >whole philosophy of the now and present-moment awareness would be
        >hooked onto this anomalous interpretation of 'pat.i' as 'now' !
        >To sum up: either the Buddha contradicts himself between Dhp 348 and
        >MN131 on present-moment awareness or the PED contradicts itself in its
        >understanding of 'pat.i' and 'paccuppanna'. At the moment, PG, I can't
        >see MN 131 as supporting the modern idea of present moment awareness,
        >but that puts me in the difficult position of agreeing with the PED on
        >'pat.i', but disagreeing with the PED on 'paccuppanna', which I take to
        >mean 'come to mind, the contents of mind' without any temporal
        >reference; if temporal reference to 'now' were seriously meant, the Pali
        >would surely use 'vuttamaana'. I would really appreciate some feedback
        >on this point.
        >I'm sorry if I have muddied the waters for you and, if you find
        >'present-moment awareness' a useful concept, please keep it. But it is
        >not useful for me or some others and I genuinely doubt that the Buddha
        >taught it. I wonder if those who do see this concept in the Buddha's
        >teachings are projecting a modern zeitgeist onto the Buddha.
        >Better late than never,
        >With metta
        >Stefan Karpik

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