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about 'accanta'

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  • tzungkuen
    Dear Dhammafriends : A verse in Gotamiisuttam of Bhikkhunisam.yutta: Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa; Na socaami na rodaami, na tam. bhaayaami
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 3, 2002
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      Dear Dhammafriends :
      A verse in Gotamiisuttam of Bhikkhunisam.yutta:

      ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

      Na socaami na rodaami, na tam. bhaayaami aavuso.'

      This verse is translated by Bodhi Bhikkhu as follows:


      'I’ve gotten past the death of sons

      With this, the search for men has ended.'

      I don’t understand the sentence ‘Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa’.

      Is there any sentence pattern of ‘accanta’? Could anybody analyze it for me? Thank you.

      with metta

      Tzungkuen



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • tzungkuen
      Dear Dhammafriends : A verse in Gotamiisuttam of Bhikkhunisam.yutta: Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa; Na socaami na rodaami, na tam. bhaayaami
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 4, 2002
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        Dear Dhammafriends :
        A verse in Gotamiisuttam of Bhikkhunisam.yutta:

        ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

        Na socaami na rodaami, na tam. bhaayaami aavuso.'

        This verse is translated by Bodhi Bhikkhu as follows:


        'I've gotten past the death of sons

        With this, the search for men has ended.'

        I don't understand the sentence 'Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa'.

        Is there any sentence pattern of 'accanta'? Could anybody analyze it for me? Thank you.

        with metta

        Tzungkuen



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • äÍÉÔÒÉÊ áÌÅËÓÅÅ×ÉÞ é×
        Dear Tzungkuen, t Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa; t I¡¦ve gotten past the death of sons t With this, the search
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 4, 2002
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          Dear Tzungkuen,

          t> ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

          t> 'I║╕ve gotten past the death of sons

          t> With this, the search for men has ended.'

          As I understand here on the first glance:

          - accanta.m is translated as an archaic form of first person participle
          'gotten past';

          - mata - dead;

          - putta - son;

          - purisaa etadantikaa = those men (were) final.

          Hopefully you'll understand the rest looking up the dictionary.

          Metta,
          Dimitry

          P.S. In the previous post 'second to you in beauty' should be
          understood as 'equal to you in beauty'.
        • tzungkuen
          Dear DimitryThanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group, I don t know what to do with my question. I still have problem
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 5, 2002
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            Dear Dimitry

            Thanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group,
            I don't know what to do with my question.
            I still have problem with this verse:
            ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

            > As I understand here on the first glance:
            > - accanta.m is translated as an archaic form of first person participle
            > 'gotten past';

            But PED says that 'accanta' is a noun meaning 'the end', not a participle of
            verb.

            > - purisaa etadantikaa = those men (were) final.
            purisaa and antikaa is respectively nominative and plural of purisa and
            antika
            but etad is singular. Can 'etad' qualify ' purisaa antikaa' ?
            And Is it proper to translate ' purisaa antikaa ' as 'Men are of end '?

            With metta

            Tzunguken

            -----------------------------------------------------------------
            < ¨C¤Ñ³£ Yahoo!©_¼¯ > www.yahoo.com.tw
          • ������� ���������� ��������� (Dimitry A.
            Dear Tzungkuen, t Thanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group, t I don t know what to do with my question. Why don t you look
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 6, 2002
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              Dear Tzungkuen,

              t> Thanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group,
              t> I don't know what to do with my question.

              Why don't you look up the commentary?

              t> I still have problem with this verse:
              t> ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

              >> As I understand here on the first glance:
              >> - accanta.m is translated as an archaic form of first person participle
              >> 'gotten past';

              t> But PED says that 'accanta' is a noun meaning 'the end', not a participle of
              t> verb.

              Indeed. Bhikkhu Bodhi's interpretation is unusual.

              That's how it is explained in Atthakatha

              Accanta.m mataputtaamhi'iti ettha anta.m atiita.m accanta.m,
              bhaavana'pu.msakam'eta.m. Ida.m vutta.m hoti- yathaa putta'mara.na.m
              anta.m atiita.m hoti, eva.m mata'puttaa aha.m, idaani mama puna
              putta'mara.na.m naama natthi.

              anta - having an end, ended;
              atiita - past, gone by;

              therefore 'accanta.m' here means 'complete, gone by, finished';

              Thus the first half according to commentary is:

              'Gone by is the death of sons'

              >> - purisaa etadantikaa = those men (were) final.
              t> purisaa and antikaa is respectively nominative and plural of purisa and
              t> antika
              t> but etad is singular. Can 'etad' qualify ' purisaa antikaa' ?
              t> And Is it proper to translate ' purisaa antikaa ' as 'Men are of end '?

              There is an explanation in the PED ('antika' article):

              'men are (to me) at the end for that, i.e. men do not exist any more
              for me, for the purpose of begetting sons.'

              The commentary continues:

              Purisaa etadantikaati purisaapi me etadantikaava. Yo me
              puttamara.nassa anto, purisaanampi me esevanto, abhabbaa aha.m idaani
              purisa.m gavesitunti.

              antikaa purisaa - final men;
              'etad' refers to the previous clause.

              Thus the second half is translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi according to
              commentary as:

              'with this, the search for men has ended'.

              With metta,
              Dimitry
            • tzungkuen
              Dear Dimitry Thanks for you explanation and your advice is very helpful to me. Now I know I can look up the commentary first when I encounter some question.
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 6, 2002
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                Dear Dimitry

                Thanks for you explanation and your advice is very helpful to me. Now I know I can look up the commentary first when I encounter some question.

                With Metta

                Tzungkuen
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: äÍÉÔÒÉÊ áÌÅËÓÅÅ×ÉÞ é×ÁÈÎÅÎËÏ (Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko)
                To: tzungkuen
                Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:47 AM
                Subject: Re[2]: [Pali] about 'accanta'


                Dear Tzungkuen,

                t> Thanks for your help very much. Wihtout you and other friends in this group,
                t> I don't know what to do with my question.

                Why don't you look up the commentary?

                t> I still have problem with this verse:
                t> ' Accanta.m mataputtaamhi, purisaa etadantikaa;

                >> As I understand here on the first glance:
                >> - accanta.m is translated as an archaic form of first person participle
                >> 'gotten past';

                t> But PED says that 'accanta' is a noun meaning 'the end', not a participle of
                t> verb.

                Indeed. Bhikkhu Bodhi's interpretation is unusual.

                That's how it is explained in Atthakatha

                Accanta.m mataputtaamhi'iti ettha anta.m atiita.m accanta.m,
                bhaavana'pu.msakam'eta.m. Ida.m vutta.m hoti- yathaa putta'mara.na.m
                anta.m atiita.m hoti, eva.m mata'puttaa aha.m, idaani mama puna
                putta'mara.na.m naama natthi.

                anta - having an end, ended;
                atiita - past, gone by;

                therefore 'accanta.m' here means 'complete, gone by, finished';

                Thus the first half according to commentary is:

                'Gone by is the death of sons'

                >> - purisaa etadantikaa = those men (were) final.
                t> purisaa and antikaa is respectively nominative and plural of purisa and
                t> antika
                t> but etad is singular. Can 'etad' qualify ' purisaa antikaa' ?
                t> And Is it proper to translate ' purisaa antikaa ' as 'Men are of end '?

                There is an explanation in the PED ('antika' article):

                'men are (to me) at the end for that, i.e. men do not exist any more
                for me, for the purpose of begetting sons.'

                The commentary continues:

                Purisaa etadantikaati purisaapi me etadantikaava. Yo me
                puttamara.nassa anto, purisaanampi me esevanto, abhabbaa aha.m idaani
                purisa.m gavesitunti.

                antikaa purisaa - final men;
                'etad' refers to the previous clause.

                Thus the second half is translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi according to
                commentary as:

                'with this, the search for men has ended'.

                With metta,
                Dimitry



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