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Re: hiri and ottappa (Re: ottappa {Re: [Pali] Re: AN2.1.7 Ka.nha Sutta (1/1)})

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  • Kumara Bhikkhu
    ... Thank you for sharing that. I do believe that hiriottappa are good qualities. I just doubt the common translation of them as shame and fear of wrong doing,
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 23, 2009
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      DC Wijeratna wrote thus at 17:34 22/03/2009:
      >>>Really, these are the two fundamental motivations to avoid wrong-doing,
      >>>especially so in a time when a Buddha is not living.
      >
      >>I hear you. I'm just not so sure of that.
      >
      >The comment above was made on the basis of Devadhamma Jaataka. Jaataka No. 6.
      >It is captioned by which could be of interest:
      >"hiriottappasampannaa sukkadhammasamaahitaa
      >santo sappurisaa loke devadhammaati vuccareti"

      Thank you for sharing that. I do believe that hiriottappa are good qualities. I just doubt the common translation of them as shame and fear of wrong doing, which doesn't work in my experience.

      kb


      >________________________________
      >From: Kumara Bhikkhu <yg@...>
      >To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      >Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:12:00 PM
      >Subject: RE: hiri and ottappa (Re: ottappa {Re: [Pali] Re: AN2.1.7 Ka.nha Sutta (1/1)})
      >
      >D.C. Wijeratna wrote thus at 09:52 AM 16-03-09:
      >>There are no exact equivalents in English or in any other language for the
      >>range of emotions expressed in the Pali Canon.
      >
      >I fully agree with you on that. It's a perennial issue in translation, esp. when it comes to mental states.
      >
      >>Traditionally, ‘hiri’ and
      >>‘ottappa’ are interpreted as: shame of wrong-doing; fear of wrong doing.
      >
      >True.
      >
      >>Really, these are the two fundamental motivations to avoid wrong-doing,
      >>especially so in a time when a Buddha is not living.
      >
      >I hear you. I'm just not so sure of that.
      >
      >In practice, I find shame and fear to arise from sakkaayaditthi. Furthermore, they don't work very well in my spiritual development. OTOH, understanding the causes (as far down as I can) has been a far more effective and lasting solution.
      >
      >So, with such repeated empirical examples of this in my life, I begin to wonder if the orthodox interpretations of hiri and ottappa are correct.
      >
      >kb
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