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Chinese canon

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  • ������� ���������� ��������� (Dimitry A.
    Dear Pali friends, The Vimuttimagga which survived in Chinese and Japanese canon provides profound insights in the Buddha s teaching as it existed in first
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 29, 2002
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      Dear Pali friends,

      The 'Vimuttimagga' which survived in Chinese and Japanese canon
      provides profound insights in the Buddha's teaching as it existed in
      first century c.e.

      Can you please tell whether there are any similar early translated
      works in Chinese, Japanese and Tibetan Buddhist canon?

      Kind regards,
      Dimitry
    • Robert Didham
      Sdrasty Dmitri There are some other Pali works translated into Chinese - the early translators seem to have translated everything they could lay their hands
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 30, 2002
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        Sdrasty Dmitri

        There are some other Pali works translated into Chinese - the early
        translators seem to have translated everything they could lay their hands
        on, fortunately for us. An example is the Chinese translation of a version
        of the Samantapasadika (Shan Tien Pi Po Sha - original attributed to
        Buddhaghosa)which has been translated from Chinese into English by Bapat and
        Hirakawa

        Robert Didham






        >From: "������� ���������� ��������� (Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko)"
        ><koleso@...>
        >Reply-To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        >To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [Pali] Chinese canon
        >Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:58:21 +0200
        >
        >Dear Pali friends,
        >
        >The 'Vimuttimagga' which survived in Chinese and Japanese canon
        >provides profound insights in the Buddha's teaching as it existed in
        >first century c.e.
        >
        >Can you please tell whether there are any similar early translated
        >works in Chinese, Japanese and Tibetan Buddhist canon?
        >
        >Kind regards,
        > Dimitry
        >
        >


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      • Jou Smith
        ... From: äÍÉÔÒÉÊ áÌÅËÓÅÅ×ÉÞ é×ÁÈÎÅÎËÏ (Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko) To: Sent: Wednesday,
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 30, 2002
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "äÍÉÔÒÉÊ áÌÅËÓÅÅ×ÉÞ é×ÁÈÎÅÎËÏ (Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko)"
          <koleso@...>
          To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 5:58 PM
          Subject: [Pali] Chinese canon


          > Dear Pali friends,
          >
          > The 'Vimuttimagga' which survived in Chinese and Japanese canon
          > provides profound insights in the Buddha's teaching as it existed in
          > first century c.e.
          >
          > Can you please tell whether there are any similar early translated
          > works in Chinese, Japanese and Tibetan Buddhist canon?

          Well, there is of course, a Chinese versions of the first four nikaaya of
          the Sutta Pi.taka as well as more than one version of the Vinaya Pi.taka.
          These Chinese versions of these two pi.takas are quite similar to the Paali,
          but this is not so with the Chinese version of the Abhidhamma Pi.taka, which
          by the way, they do not class as the Buddha's words, even though they might
          class even later texts as such.

          ----------------------------------------------------
          Peace from Norman Joseph (Jou) Smith
          ICQ: 183459
          E-mail: josmith.1@...
          V-mail: +61 7 (0)500523778
          Mobile: +61 (0)421 542 653
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        • robertkirkpatrick.rm
          ... it probably due to its containing a few dubious points. Robert
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 30, 2002
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            --- In Pali@y..., "äÍÉÔÒÉÊ áÌÅËÓÅÅ×ÉÞ é×ÁÈÎÅÎËÏ (Dimitry A. >
            > The 'Vimuttimagga' which survived in Chinese and Japanese canon
            > provides profound insights in the Buddha's teaching as it existed in
            > first century c.e.
            > > Dimitry
            ___________
            Dear Dimitry,
            I think the Vimuttimagga may have been composed by the Abhayagiri
            sect - who are often referred to as "keci" (some) in the commentaries.
            While it is close to the orthodox tradition it wasn't accepted as part of =
            it
            probably due to its containing a few dubious points.
            Robert
          • äÍÉÔÒÉÊ áÌÅËÓÅÅ×ÉÞ é×
            Zdravstvujte, Robert, (or in Pali equivalent:) Aayasmaa Robert, To Robert Didham: Thank you for a good example of Samantapasadika . Do you know the names of
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 30, 2002
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              Zdravstvujte, Robert,
              (or in Pali equivalent:)
              Aayasmaa Robert,

              To Robert Didham:
              Thank you for a good example of 'Samantapasadika'. Do you know the
              names of other Pali works translated into Chinese?

              To Robert Kirkpatrick:
              Indeed Vimuttimagga contains Mahayana-like allusions to Bodhisattvas
              and Mahasattvas. That may be the reason why it didn't survive in Pali
              version. Yet in some respects it is closer to suttas than
              Visuddhimagga, for example in the list of kasinas, etc.

              The Pali canon obviously underwent the process of evolution during
              which frequently occuring passages were transformed into rote
              formulas. The early texts, as shown by the example of Vimuttimagga,
              may contain similar passages in descriptive 'live' language. That's
              why I am looking for them.

              Kind regards,
              Dimitry

              RD> There are some other Pali works translated into Chinese - the
              RD> early translators seem to have translated everything they could
              RD> lay their hands on, fortunately for us. An example is the Chinese
              RD> translation of a version of the Samantapasadika (Shan Tien Pi Po
              RD> Sha - original attributed to Buddhaghosa)which has been translated
              RD> from Chinese into English by Bapat and Hirakawa

              RD> Robert Didham






              >>From: "Дмитрий Алексеевич Ивахненко (Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko)"
              >><koleso@...>
              >>Reply-To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
              >>To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
              >>Subject: [Pali] Chinese canon
              >>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:58:21 +0200
              >>
              >>Dear Pali friends,
              >>
              >>The 'Vimuttimagga' which survived in Chinese and Japanese canon
              >>provides profound insights in the Buddha's teaching as it existed in
              >>first century c.e.
              >>
              >>Can you please tell whether there are any similar early translated
              >>works in Chinese, Japanese and Tibetan Buddhist canon?
              >>
              >>Kind regards,
              >> Dimitry
              >>
              >>


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            • Robert Didham
              Dobryj den , Dmitri - Aayasmaa There are a few and if I get a spare moment I will see what I can turn up and let you know what I find - they are predominantly
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 31, 2002
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                Dobryj den', Dmitri - Aayasmaa

                There are a few and if I get a spare moment I will see what I can turn up
                and let you know what I find - they are predominantly commentarial
                literature I think. The trouble is that there is a stack of stuff tucked
                away in various recensions which still awaits proper identification. I seem
                to recall that John Richards suggested that the first part of one of the
                Chinese translations of the Dhammapada (Fa Chu Ching?) showed evidence that
                it was translated from Pali rather than Sanskrit or Gandhari versions. I
                think it is clear that the bulk of the canonical texts were translated from
                languages other than Pali or at the very least not from the Pali versions we
                now have - certainly all of the vinayas extant in Chinese can safely be
                assumed to have been translated from Sanskrit. In many case, of course, we
                have since lost the Sanskrit originals - and the distinction between
                "hinayana" and "mahayana" gets quite cloudy in the context of Chinese
                monastic rules(some of which appear to have developed in situ - we also have
                to be careful of Sanskrit versions which may have been back translations
                from Chinese or Tibetan - or, like the Heart Sutra, Chinese originals in the
                first place).

                Cheers

                Robert Didham







                >From: "������� ���������� ��������� (Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko)"
                ><koleso@...>
                >Reply-To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                >To: Robert Didham <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
                >Subject: Re[2]: [Pali] Chinese canon
                >Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:20:50 +0200
                >
                >Zdravstvujte, Robert,
                >(or in Pali equivalent:)
                >Aayasmaa Robert,
                >
                >To Robert Didham:
                >Thank you for a good example of 'Samantapasadika'. Do you know the
                >names of other Pali works translated into Chinese?
                >
                >To Robert Kirkpatrick:
                >Indeed Vimuttimagga contains Mahayana-like allusions to Bodhisattvas
                >and Mahasattvas. That may be the reason why it didn't survive in Pali
                >version. Yet in some respects it is closer to suttas than
                >Visuddhimagga, for example in the list of kasinas, etc.
                >
                >The Pali canon obviously underwent the process of evolution during
                >which frequently occuring passages were transformed into rote
                >formulas. The early texts, as shown by the example of Vimuttimagga,
                >may contain similar passages in descriptive 'live' language. That's
                >why I am looking for them.
                >
                >Kind regards,
                > Dimitry
                >
                >RD> There are some other Pali works translated into Chinese - the
                >RD> early translators seem to have translated everything they could
                >RD> lay their hands on, fortunately for us. An example is the Chinese
                >RD> translation of a version of the Samantapasadika (Shan Tien Pi Po
                >RD> Sha - original attributed to Buddhaghosa)which has been translated
                >RD> from Chinese into English by Bapat and Hirakawa
                >
                >RD> Robert Didham
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >>From: "������� ���������� ��������� (Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko)"
                > >><koleso@...>
                > >>Reply-To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                > >>To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                > >>Subject: [Pali] Chinese canon
                > >>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:58:21 +0200
                > >>
                > >>Dear Pali friends,
                > >>
                > >>The 'Vimuttimagga' which survived in Chinese and Japanese canon
                > >>provides profound insights in the Buddha's teaching as it existed in
                > >>first century c.e.
                > >>
                > >>Can you please tell whether there are any similar early translated
                > >>works in Chinese, Japanese and Tibetan Buddhist canon?
                > >>
                > >>Kind regards,
                > >> Dimitry
                > >>
                > >>
                >
                >
                >RD> _________________________________________________________________
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                >
                >
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              • tzungkuen
                Dear Dimitry There is also a chinese version of Pali Milinda-Pa~nha. with metta Tzungkuen ... From: äÍÉÔÒÉÊ áÌÅËÓÅÅ×ÉÞ é×ÁÈÎÅÎËÏ
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 3, 2002
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                  Dear Dimitry

                  There is also a chinese version of Pali Milinda-Pa~nha.

                  with metta

                  Tzungkuen
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: äÍÉÔÒÉÊ áÌÅËÓÅÅ×ÉÞ é×ÁÈÎÅÎËÏ (Dimitry A. Ivakhnenko)
                  To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:58 PM
                  Subject: [Pali] Chinese canon


                  Dear Pali friends,

                  The 'Vimuttimagga' which survived in Chinese and Japanese canon
                  provides profound insights in the Buddha's teaching as it existed in
                  first century c.e.

                  Can you please tell whether there are any similar early translated
                  works in Chinese, Japanese and Tibetan Buddhist canon?

                  Kind regards,
                  Dimitry



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