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Pronouncing ~n~ before j or other consonants

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  • Phil
    Dear Pali pals, Could you kindly explain how the ~n~ (spanish senor sound) is pronounced before a consonant such as j ? (So far I have only seen this in
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 2, 2009
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      Dear Pali pals,

      Could you kindly explain how the ~n~ (spanish "senor" sound) is
      pronounced before a consonant such as "j"? (So far I have only seen
      this in bhu~n~jati but can't find an explanation of this combination in
      the pronunciation guide I have.)

      Like "bhunyujati?" or is the "j" sound lost? ("bhunyati")

      Does this sound appear before any other consonants?

      Also, what is this ~ symbol called again? I forget from my Spanish
      study days.

      Thanks!

      Phil
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear Phil you could try: and click: pa~nca and pa~nha. Nina. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 2, 2009
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        Dear Phil
        you could try: <http://www.aimwell.org/Help/Pali/pali.html> and
        click: pa~nca and pa~nha.
        Nina.
        Op 2-mrt-2009, om 13:01 heeft Phil het volgende geschreven:

        > Could you kindly explain how the ~n~ (spanish "senor" sound) is
        > pronounced before a consonant such as "j"? (So far I have only seen
        > this in bhu~n~jati but can't find an explanation of this
        > combination in
        > the pronunciation guide I have.)



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • James Whelan
        Dear phil, It s called a tilde ! As for the pronunciation. when ~n is followed by a vowel, it is pronounced with the full -ny- sound, as you correctly say,
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 2, 2009
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          Dear phil,

          It's called a tilde !

          As for the pronunciation. when ~n is followed by a vowel, it is pronounced with the full -ny- sound, as you correctly say, just like the Spanish se~nor. .

          However, when it is immediately followed by -j- or -c-, the separate full -y- sound disappears, and the only difference between ~n and the 'normal' -n- is that the ~n is pronounced with the tip of the tongue at the same point at which the -j- or -c- is articulated. One way to get it right is to feel where your tongue is when you pronounce a dental t/d (with the tongue touching the top back of the teeth) , then pronounce c/j. You will notice that for c/j the tip of the tongue is slightly further back into the mouth. The tongue is in these exact same spots for the pronunciation of -n- and -~n- respectively.

          If you know Spanish, say 'santa sancha', and you will notice that the tongue is slightly further back along the palate (on the ridge behind the teeth) in 'sancha'. Exactly the same in Pali (and Sanskrit). The ~n is 'coloured' by the following j/c sound.

          If you get the tongue in the right place for dental t/d, then a bit further back for c/j, and further back still for the subdotted .t/.d, pronounce the preceding n/~n/.n at that same spot and it will come out right automatically.

          Hope this helps,

          Metta,
          James Whelan



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Phil
          To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 12:01 PM
          Subject: [Pali] Pronouncing ~n~ before j or other consonants




          Dear Pali pals,

          Could you kindly explain how the ~n~ (spanish "senor" sound) is
          pronounced before a consonant such as "j"? (So far I have only seen
          this in bhu~n~jati but can't find an explanation of this combination in
          the pronunciation guide I have.)

          Like "bhunyujati?" or is the "j" sound lost? ("bhunyati")

          Does this sound appear before any other consonants?

          Also, what is this ~ symbol called again? I forget from my Spanish
          study days.

          Thanks!

          Phil




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Phil
          Hello James and Nina ... further back for c/j, and further back still for the subdotted .t/.d, pronounce the preceding n/~n/.n at that same spot and it will
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 2, 2009
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            Hello James and Nina


            > If you get the tongue in the right place for dental t/d, then a bit
            further back for c/j, and further back still for the subdotted .t/.d,
            pronounce the preceding n/~n/.n at that same spot and it will come out
            right automatically.
            >
            > Hope this helps,


            Thank you James. I'm an English as a Second Language teacher by
            profession, so your thorough explanation was crystal clear to me.

            Thanks also Nina. That site is very helpful for isolating sounds.

            BTW, I mentionned that my links to that Dhammapada in Pali and
            English with full grammar notes (and individual word and full sentence
            pronunciation clips) were dead, but for some reason when I access
            through ATI they work. Good news for me. That is a super study aid.

            Metta,

            Phil
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