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AN2.1.9 Cariya Sutta (1/2)

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Nina and friends, AN2.1.9 Cariyasutta 9. Dveme , bhikkhave, dhammaa sukkaa loka.m paalenti. Katame dve? Hirii ca ottappa~nca. Ime kho, bhikkhave, dve
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 1 5:45 AM
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      Dear Nina and friends,

      AN2.1.9 Cariyasutta

      9. "Dveme , bhikkhave, dhammaa sukkaa loka.m paalenti. Katame dve?
      Hirii ca ottappa~nca. Ime kho, bhikkhave, dve sukkaa dhammaa loka.m na
      paaleyyu.m, nayidha pa~n~naayetha maataati vaa maatucchaati vaa
      maatulaaniiti vaa aacariyabhariyaati vaa garuuna.m daaraati vaa.
      Sambheda.m loko agamissa, yathaa aje.lakaa kukku.tasuukaraa
      so.nasi`ngaalaa. Yasmaa ca kho, bhikkhave, ime dve sukkaa dhammaa
      loka.m paalenti tasmaa pa~n~naayati maataati vaa maatucchaati vaa
      maatulaaniiti vaa aacariyabhariyaati vaa garuuna.m daaraati vaa"ti.
      Navama.m.

      --------------------------------------------------

      Cariyasutta
      conduct / sutta
      On Conduct

      * cariya (n) conduct, behaviour.

      "Dveme , bhikkhave, dhammaa sukkaa loka.m paalenti.
      these two / monks / things / pure / world / protect
      "O monks, these two things, (which are) pure, protect the world.

      * dveme = dve ime: these two.
      - dve (num) two.
      - aya.m (pron) this.
      * bhikkhu (m) monk.
      * dhamma (m) thing.
      * sukka (adj) bright, pure, good.
      * loka (m) world.
      * paaleti (v) protects, guards.

      Katame dve?
      which / two
      Which two?

      * katama (pron) which.

      Hirii ca ottappa~nca.
      sense of shame / and / remorse for wrong-doing and
      Sense of shame and remorse for wrong-doing.

      * hirii (f) sense of shame.
      * ca (conj) and.
      * ottappa (n) fear of wrong-doing, remorse.

      Ime kho, bhikkhave, dve sukkaa dhammaa loka.m na paaleyyu.m, nayidha
      pa~n~naayetha maataati vaa maatucchaati vaa maatulaaniiti vaa
      aacariyabhariyaati vaa garuuna.m daaraati vaa.

      * kho (indec) indeed.
      * na (neg) not.
      * nayidha = na + y + idha (sandhi).
      - idha (indec) now.
      * pa~n~naayati (passive of pajaanaati) is known, is clear.
      - pa~n~naayetha (optative attanopada 3rd person singular) may (it)
      be known, clear.
      * maataati
      * vaa (conj) or.
      * maatucchaa (f) mother's sister, maternal aunt.
      * maatulaanii (f) mother's brother's wife.
      * aacariyabhariyaa (f) teacher's wife.
      - aacariya (m) teacher.
      - bhariyaa (f) wife.
      * garu (m) teacher.
      * daaraa (f) wife.

      I have prepared the vocabulary list, which is hopefully correct. Does
      anyone like to translate this last sentence into English? Thank you.


      metta,
      Yong Peng.
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear Yong Peng, I will try the last sentence. Op 1-mrt-2009, om 14:45 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven: AN2.1.9 Cariyasutta 9. Dveme , bhikkhave,
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 3 3:04 AM
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        Dear Yong Peng,
        I will try the last sentence.
        Op 1-mrt-2009, om 14:45 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:
        AN2.1.9 Cariyasutta

        9. "Dveme , bhikkhave, dhammaa sukkaa loka.m paalenti. Katame dve?
        Hirii ca ottappa~nca. Ime kho, bhikkhave, dve sukkaa dhammaa loka.m na
        paaleyyu.m, nayidha pa~n~naayetha maataati vaa maatucchaati vaa
        maatulaaniiti vaa aacariyabhariyaati vaa garuuna.m daaraati vaa.
        Sambheda.m loko agamissa, yathaa aje.lakaa kukku.tasuukaraa
        so.nasi`ngaalaa. Yasmaa ca kho, bhikkhave, ime dve sukkaa dhammaa
        loka.m paalenti tasmaa pa~n~naayati maataati vaa maatucchaati vaa
        maatulaaniiti vaa aacariyabhariyaati vaa garuuna.m daaraati vaa"ti.
        Navama.m.
        -------------
        N: Y.P.: pa~n~naayetha (optative attanopada 3rd person singular) may
        (it)
        be known, clear.
        -------

        N: As you say, optative of reflexive or middle conjugation, Warder Ch
        28. It can be translated as : would be known.
        na paaleyyu.m: optative of paaleti, to protect. If they would not
        protect.

        sambheda: confusion.

        agamissa: future of agacchati: will come.

        aja: goat.

        e.laka: wild goat.

        kukkuta: cock

        so.na: dog

        Ime kho, bhikkhave, dve sukkaa dhammaa loka.m na paaleyyu.m,
        these/indeed/monks/two bright dhammas/ the world/not protect
        O monks, if these two bright qualities would not protect the world

        nayidha pa~n~naayetha maataati vaa maatucchaati vaa
        not now/ would be seen /mother/mother's sister/or
        then there would not be known a mother, a mother's sister or

        maatulaaniiti vaa aacariyabhariyaati vaa garuuna.m daaraati vaa.
        uncle's spouse/or teacher's spouse/ or spouses of honourable men
        uncle's spouse, teacher's spouse or spouses of honourable men.

        Sambheda.m loko agamissa, yathaa aje.lakaa kukku.tasuukaraa
        to confusion/world/will come/ such as goat, sheep, /fowls, swine/
        so.nasi`ngaalaa.
        /dogs, jackals./
        The world will come to confusion, such as (promiscuity between) goat
        and sheep, fowls and swine, dogs and jackals.

        /Yasmaa ca kho/, bhikkhave, /
        O monks, since indeed /

        /ime dve sukkaa dhammaa loka.m paalenti tasmaa pa~n~naayati maataati
        vaa maatucchaati vaa maatulaaniiti vaa aacariyabhariyaati vaa
        garuuna.m daaraati vaa"ti./

        these two bright qualities protect the world, therefore are known a
        mother, a mother's sister or uncle's spouse, teacher's spouse or
        spouses of honourable men.

        Navama.m.
        The Ninth.
        ------------
        N: Remark: This is an example of very coarse shamelessness and fear
        of blame. We read that the monk sees danger in the slightest fault,
        and the Vinaya helps the monk to see this danger.
        Shame and fear of blame can become more refined as there is more
        understanding of the cittas that motivate action, speech and thought.
        In that way one can be aware even of a slight thought of desire or
        aversion. There can be more understanding of what akusala citta is
        and what kusala citta.
        ------------
        Nina.




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ong Yong Peng
        Dear Nina and friends, thank you. Following recent discussions on Ka.nha Sutta, let me rework Cariya Sutta as follows: Cariyasutta conduct / sutta On Conduct *
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 21 6:12 AM
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          Dear Nina and friends,

          thank you. Following recent discussions on Ka.nha Sutta, let me rework Cariya Sutta as follows:

          Cariyasutta
          conduct / sutta
          On Conduct

          * cariya (n) conduct, behaviour.

          "Dveme , bhikkhave, dhammaa sukkaa loka.m paalenti.
          these two / monks / things / bright / world / protect
          "O monks, these two qualities, (which are) bright, protect the world.

          * dveme = dve ime: these two.
          - dve (num) two.
          - aya.m (pron) this.
          * bhikkhu (m) monk.
          * dhamma (m) thing.
          * sukka (adj) bright, pure, good.
          * loka (m) world.
          * paaleti (v) protects, guards.

          Katame dve?
          which / two
          Which two?

          * katama (pron) which.

          Hirii ca ottappa~nca.
          shame of wrong-doing / and / fear of wrong-doing and
          Shame of wrong-doing and fear of wrong-doing.

          * hirii (f) shame of wrong-doing, ethical integrity.
          * ca (conj) and.
          * ottappa (n) fear of wrong-doing, moral prudence.

          Ime kho, bhikkhave, dve sukkaa dhammaa loka.m na paaleyyu.m, nayidha pa~n~naayetha maataati vaa maatucchaati vaa maatulaaniiti vaa aacariyabhariyaati vaa garuuna.m daaraati vaa.
          these / indeed / monks / two / bright / things / world / not / (if) would guard / not then / may be clear / mother / or / mother's sister / or / uncle's spouse / or / teacher's spouse / or / of honourable men / spouses / or
          O monks, if these two bright qualities would not guard the world, then (the notion of) "mother" or "mother's sister" or "uncle's spouse" or "teacher's spouse" or "spouses of honourable men" may not be clear.

          * kho (indec) indeed.
          * na (neg) not.
          * nayidha = na + y + idha (sandhi).
          - idha (indec) then.
          * paaleti (v) protects, guards.
          * pa~n~naayati (passive of pajaanaati) is known, is clear.
          - pa~n~naayetha (optative attanopada 3rd person singular) may be known, clear.
          * maataa (f) mother.
          * vaa (conj) or.
          * maatucchaa (f) mother's sister, maternal aunt.
          * maatulaanii (f) mother's brother's wife.
          * aacariyabhariyaa (f) teacher's wife.
          - aacariya (m) teacher.
          - bhariyaa (f) wife.
          * garu (m) honourable person.
          * daaraa (f) wife.

          Thanks also to Nina for the second part of the sutta, which I shall reorganise and post to the group next week.


          metta,
          Yong Peng.
        • Nina van Gorkom
          Dear Yong Peng, ... N: pa~n~naayetha maataati vaa maatucchaati vaa maatulaaniiti vaa aacariyabhariyaati vaa garuuna.m daaraati vaa. Another option: then
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 22 2:37 AM
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            Dear Yong Peng,
            Op 21-mrt-2009, om 14:12 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:

            > Ime kho, bhikkhave, dve sukkaa dhammaa loka.m na paaleyyu.m,
            > nayidha pa~n~naayetha maataati vaa maatucchaati vaa maatulaaniiti
            > vaa aacariyabhariyaati vaa garuuna.m daaraati vaa.
            > these / indeed / monks / two / bright / things / world / not / (if)
            > would guard / not then / may be clear / mother / or / mother's
            > sister / or / uncle's spouse / or / teacher's spouse / or / of
            > honourable men / spouses / or
            > O monks, if these two bright qualities would not guard the world,
            > then (the notion of) "mother" or "mother's sister" or "uncle's
            > spouse" or "teacher's spouse" or "spouses of honourable men" may
            > not be clear.
            ---------
            N: pa~n~naayetha maataati vaa maatucchaati vaa maatulaaniiti vaa
            aacariyabhariyaati vaa garuuna.m daaraati vaa.
            Another option: then "mother" etc. would not be regarded as such.

            There is the suffix 'ti' I like to consider. The Co. states that
            mother etc. are not respected. The shameless person knows it is his
            mother but he has no respect and does not regard her as such.
            Nina.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ong Yong Peng
            Dear Nina and friends, Sambheda.m loko agamissa, yathaa aje.lakaa kukku.tasuukaraa so.nasi`ngaalaa. to confusion / world / if...had gone / like / goats and
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 28 11:14 PM
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              Dear Nina and friends,

              Sambheda.m loko agamissa, yathaa aje.lakaa kukku.tasuukaraa so.nasi`ngaalaa.
              to confusion / world / if...had gone / like / goats and sheep / roosters and pigs / dogs and jackals
              If the world had gone to confusion, (it will be) like goats and sheep, roosters and pigs, and dogs and jackals.

              * sambheda (m) mixing up, confusion.
              * gacchati (v) goes.
              - agamissa (kaalaatipatti 3rd person singular) if (he) had gone.
              * yathaa (adv) like.
              * aje.lakaa (m) goats and sheep.
              - aja (m) goat.
              - e.laka (m) ram, wild goat.
              * kukku.tasuukaraa (m) roosters and pigs.
              - kukku.ta (m) cock, rooster.
              - suukara (m) hog, pig.
              * so.nasi`ngaalaa (m) dogs and jackals.
              - so.na (m) dog.
              - si`ngaala (m) jackal.

              Yasmaa ca kho, bhikkhave, ime dve sukkaa dhammaa loka.m paalenti tasmaa pa~n~naayati maataati vaa maatucchaati vaa maatulaaniiti vaa aacariyabhariyaati vaa garuuna.m daaraati vaa"ti.
              because / and / indeed / monks / these / two / bright / qualities / world / protect / therefore / is known / mother / or / mother's sister / or / uncle's spouse / or / teacher's spouse / or / of honourable men / spouses / or
              Indeed, O monks, and because these two bright qualities protect the world, therefore, "mother" or "mother's sister" or "uncle's spouse" or "teacher's spouse" or "spouses of honourable men" is known.

              * yasmaa (indec) because.
              * tasmaa (indec) therefore.

              Navama.m.
              ninth
              The ninth.


              metta,
              Yong Peng.
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