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Re: Translation of aryiasaavaka

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  • Dhivan Thomas Jones
    Dear AL and Ardavarz, The compound ariyasaavaka is genuinely ambiguous - it can be taken to mean noble disciple , which (as Ardavarz says) is to take it as
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 13, 2009
      Dear AL and Ardavarz,

      The compound 'ariyasaavaka' is genuinely ambiguous - it can be taken
      to mean 'noble disciple', which (as Ardavarz says) is to take it as a
      karmadhaarya, or as 'a disciple of the noble ones' which is to take it
      as a tatpuru.sa. The compound 'ariyasacca' is just the same - it could
      mean 'noble truth' or 'truth of the noble one' (i.e. the Buddha) or
      even 'truth of the noble ones' (i.e. enlightened beings). In English
      we tend to say 'noble truth' but the commentator Buddhaghosa actually
      prefers 'truth of the noble one'. But all this is just to say that
      there is this ambiguity with compounds in Pali.

      Dhivan

      www.dhivan.net



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • D.C. Wijeratna
      Hello, May be the real meaning of saavaka is not disciple. Mettaa, DC _____ From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of arunlikhati
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 6, 2009
        Hello,



        May be the real meaning of saavaka is not disciple.



        Mettaa,

        DC



        _____

        From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        arunlikhati
        Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:30 AM
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Pali] Translation of aryiasaavaka



        Hello,

        First I want to say how thankful I am that this list exists and to all you
        contributors who've
        put together such awesome materials. I read the emails daily and have been
        working (very,
        very slowly) through the Pali exercises.

        I have a quick question about the translation of "ariyasaavaka". Bhikkhu
        Bodhi and
        Nyanaponika Thero translate this as "noble disciple", while Thanissaro
        Bhikkhu and the PTS
        translate this as "disciple of the noble ones". I understand that these are
        not mutually
        exclusive translations, but one is certainly more specific than the other.
        I'm curious to hear
        what you have to say.

        I don't have a bias one way or another.

        Metta,
        AL





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ong Yong Peng
        Dear AL and DC, as Ardavarz pointed out in his post, ariyasaavaka is a compound, and decomposing a compound, most often than not, depends on its context. A
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 6, 2009
          Dear AL and DC,

          as Ardavarz pointed out in his post, ariyasaavaka is a compound, and decomposing a compound, most often than not, depends on its context. A question like this present some degree of ambiguity, it is important we know if the authors quoted are referring to the same text (Pali passage) and the same usage of the compound.

          metta,
          Yong Peng.


          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, D.C. Wijeratna wrote:

          May be the real meaning of saavaka is not disciple.

          > I have a quick question about the translation of "ariyasaavaka".
          > Bhikkhu Bodhi and Nyanaponika Thero translate this as "noble
          > disciple", while Thanissaro Bhikkhu and the PTS translate this as
          > "disciple of the noble ones". I understand that these are
          > not mutually exclusive translations, but one is certainly more
          > specific than the other.
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