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The New Pali Course Part III [0/120]

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    [0/120] The New Pali Course Part III (1950) Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera Chapter VI How to Shorten A Sentence 93. It is always advisable in
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 12, 2009
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      [0/120]

      The New Pali Course Part III (1950)
      Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera

      Chapter VI How to Shorten A Sentence

      93. It is always advisable in constructing a sentence to use as few
      words as possible to express the idea desired by it. (This however may
      not be possible for the beginners whose stock of words is limited.)

      The compound sentence:-

      (a) Ekadaa Bhagavaa Saavatthiya.m vihari, tadaa devataa aagantvaa
      dhamma.m su.ni.msu,

      YP: At one time the Blessed One lived in Savatthi, then the devatas
      came and heard the teachings.

      may be shortened and changed to a simple sentence as follows:-

      "Bhagavati Saavatthiya.m viharante devataa' gantvaa dhamma.m su.ni.msu".

      YP: When the Blessed One was living in Savatthi, the devatas came and
      heard the teachings.

      (b) "Yattha manussaa vasanti, tattha so.naa ca go.naa ca vasanti",

      YP: Where people live, there dogs and oxen live.

      may be shortened to:-

      "Manussaana.m vasana.t.thaane so.naa go.naa ca vasanti".

      YP: Dogs and oxen live at people's residences.

      (c) "Yo tena saddhi.m idh'aagami, so amhehi saddhi.m vaapi.m
      gamissati", may be shortened to:-

      YP: Whoever went with him now, he will go to the pond with us.

      "Tena saddhi.m idhaagato amhehi vaapi.m gamissati".

      YP: Gone with him now, (he) will go to the pond with us.

      (d) "Yadaa kukku.taa ravissanti, tadaa so aagamissati",

      YP: When the roosters crow, then he will come.

      may be shortened as:-

      "Kukku.taana.m ravanakaale so aagamissati".

      YP: He will come at the time the roosters crow.

      (e) "Te yathaa kathenti, tathaa na karonti",

      YP: As they speak, so (they) do not.

      may be shortened as:-

      "Te yathaakathita.m na karonti".

      YP: They do not do as spoken.

      (to be continued..)
    • Ong Yong Peng
      [1/120] The New Pali Course Part III (1950) Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera Chapter VI How to Shorten A Sentence (continue...) (f) Yadaa vassati,
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 27, 2009
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        [1/120]

        The New Pali Course Part III (1950)
        Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera

        Chapter VI How to Shorten A Sentence

        (continue...)

        (f) "Yadaa vassati, tadaa devo nadiyo vaapiyo ca puureti", may be
        shortened to:-

        YP: When (he) pours, then the deva fills rivers and ponds.

        "Devo vassanto nadii-vaapiyo puureti".

        YP: The deva, pouring, fills rivers and ponds.

        (g) "Yadaa tva.m nahaayissasi tadaa aha.m api nahaayissaami", may be
        changed to:-

        YP: When you will bathe, then I will also bathe.

        "Tvayi nahaayante (or tava nahaanakaale) aham pi nahaayissaami".

        YP: When you bathe (or at the time of your bath), I too will bathe.

        The following passages are taken from the Commentary on Diigha:-

        (a) "Nanu idaan'eva divasakaro attha`ngato? So katha.m ima.m
        pu.n.nacanda.m anubandhamaano uggacchissati?"

        YP: Is it not so, the sun has now set? In what way will it rise
        following this full moon?

        When shortened: Idaan'eva attha`ngato divasakaro katha.m
        pu.n.nacanda.m anubandhamaano uggacchissati?

        YP: So, now set, in what way will the sun rise, following the full moon?

        (b) "Yassa yassa hi ra~n~naa saddhi.m gantukaamataa uppajjati so so
        aakaasagato va hoti."

        YP: Of whomever, indeed, in an anxious state to go with the king,
        arises, he is like gone through the air.

        When shortened: Ra~n~naa saddhi.m gantukaamaa sabbe aakaasagataa honti.

        YP: All (those who) had gone through the air are anxious to go with
        the king.

        (c) "Yasmi.m padese cakkaratana.m pati.t.thaapesi, tattha raajaa
        vaasa.m upagacchi saddhi.m parisaaya."

        YP: In the spot where the wheel-jewel established, there the king
        entered the abode with the retinue.

        When shortened: Cakkaratanassa pati.t.thita.t.thaane sapariso raajaa
        vaasam upagacchi.

        YP: At the permanent location of the wheel-jewel, the king Saparisa
        entered the abode.

        (d) "Natthi so satto naama yo paccatthika-sa~n~naaya ta.m raajaana.m
        aarabbha aavudha.m ukkhipitu.m visaheyya."

        YP: There is not, indeed, that being who should be able to raise the
        weapon on the opposing perception concerning that king.

        When shortened: Tasmi.m raajini paccatthika-sa~n~naaya aavudha.m
        ukkhipitu.m samattho koci satto naama natthi.

        YP: There is, indeed, not a being who (is) able to raise the weapon on
        the opposing perception in that king.

        (to be continued..)
      • Kumara Bhikkhu
        ... Don t you think devo here may be better translated as the sky or rain cloud? kb
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 1 6:06 PM
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          Ong Yong Peng wrote thus at 11:35 PM 27-02-09:
          >(f) "Yadaa vassati, tadaa devo nadiyo vaapiyo ca puureti", may be
          >shortened to:-
          >
          >YP: When (he) pours, then the deva fills rivers and ponds.
          >
          >"Devo vassanto nadii-vaapiyo puureti".
          >
          >YP: The deva, pouring, fills rivers and ponds.

          Don't you think "devo" here may be better translated as the sky or rain cloud?

          kb
        • Mahinda Palihawadana
          ... This is right. deva is a common Pali term for rain, rainy sky or cloud . This meaning is noted in PTS Dictionary under DEVA. So devo vassati means it
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 2 9:11 AM
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            On 3/2/09, Kumara Bhikkhu <yg@...> wrote:
            > Don't you think "devo" here may be better translated as the sky or rain
            > cloud?
            This is right. 'deva' is a common Pali term for rain, rainy sky or
            cloud . This meaning is noted in PTS Dictionary under DEVA. So devo
            vassati means "it rains" or "it is raining".

            Mahinda
          • Kumara Bhikkhu
            YP, Since you re a S porean Chinese, perhaps I can assume that you know Hokkien and probably Mandarin too. In Hokkien (my own non-standard transliteration),
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 8 4:39 AM
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              YP,

              Since you're a S'porean Chinese, perhaps I can assume that you know Hokkien and probably Mandarin too. In Hokkien (my own non-standard transliteration), "thnee boei lok hor liao," and in Mandarin (hanyu pinyin) "tian yao xia yu liao" can be properly translated to idiomatic English as "It's going rain."

              "Thnee" and "tian" are also normally used to mean god, as in (Hokkien) "thnee tui wa chin nya ho" and (Mandarin) "tian dui wo heng hao". In English, "God is very kind to me."

              The same applies for "devo" in Pali.

              So, we can see how Chinese and Indian languages (and possibly other Asian languages too), share some parallel ways of expression. When translating this kind of expression literally to English, it can sometimes be pretty weird. Another example is "kamma.m karoti". I leave it to you to see how that is the same too.

              kb

              Mahinda Palihawadana wrote thus at 01:11 AM 03-03-09:
              >On 3/2/09, Kumara Bhikkhu <yg@...> wrote:
              >> Don't you think "devo" here may be better translated as the sky or rain
              >> cloud?
              > This is right. 'deva' is a common Pali term for rain, rainy sky or
              >cloud . This meaning is noted in PTS Dictionary under DEVA. So devo
              >vassati means "it rains" or "it is raining".
              >
              >Mahinda
            • Ong Yong Peng
              Dear Ven. Kumara, bhante, my vocabulary of Hokkien in roman characters is very limited. Nonetheless, I appreciate you making a second post on this topic.
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 9 3:04 AM
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                Dear Ven. Kumara,

                bhante, my vocabulary of Hokkien in roman characters is very limited. Nonetheless, I appreciate you making a second post on this topic. Sometimes, I may not be able to make a reply soon, and it may just got slipped away.

                I didn't get the translation right the first time because I was not aware of this alternate meaning of 'deva'. Thanks to you and Mahinda for highlighting the point.


                metta,
                Yong Peng.


                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu wrote:

                >> Don't you think "devo" here may be better translated as the sky
                >> or rain cloud?

                > This is right. 'deva' is a common Pali term for rain, rainy sky
                > or cloud . This meaning is noted in PTS Dictionary under DEVA. So
                > devo vassati means "it rains" or "it is raining".
              • Ong Yong Peng
                [2/120] The New Pali Course Part III (1950) Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera Chapter VI How to Shorten A Sentence (continue...) (e) Bhagavaa pi
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 13 12:29 AM
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                  [2/120]

                  The New Pali Course Part III (1950)
                  Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera

                  Chapter VI How to Shorten A Sentence

                  (continue...)

                  (e) "Bhagavaa pi setacchatta.m pahaaya hatthagata.m...rajja.m nissajjitvaa pabbajito, te pi setacchattaani pahaaya hatthagataani rajjaani nissajjitvaa pabbajitaa."

                  YP: The Blessed One too abandoned the white parasol, handed over the kingdom-in-possession and left the household life, they too abandoned the white parasols, handed over the kingdoms-in-possession and left the household life.

                  Shortened: Bhagavaa pi te pi setacchattaani pahaaya hatthagata-rajjaani nissajjitvaa pabbajitaa.

                  YP: The Blessed One too, they too, abandoned the white parasols, handed over the kingdoms-in-possession, and left the household life.

                  (f) "Tumhe Kapilavatthu-vaasike gahetvaa gajjatha, ye so.na-sigaalaadayo viya attano bhaginiihi saddhi.m sa.mvasi.msu."

                  Shortened: So.na-sigaalaadayo viya sakabhaginiihi saha vutthe Kapilavatthu-vaasike gahetvaa tumhe gajjatha.

                  YP: Does anyone like to help with these two sentences? Thanks.

                  (g) "Raajaana.m passitu.m aagacchantaa a~n~nassa rajja.m apii.letvaa attano attano rajjapadesen'eva aagamissanti c'eva gamissanti caati."

                  YP: (Those) coming to see the king, having subjugated the kingdom of others, will come and so will go with their own local sovereignty only.

                  Shortened: Raajadassana.m aagacchantaa pararajja.m apii.letvaa saka-saka-rajjapadesen'eva gamanaagamana.m karissantii ti.

                  YP: (Those) coming to see the king, having subjugated the other kingdom, will make the going-and-coming with their own local sovereignty only.

                  (h) "Saa patta.m gahetvaa aakaase khipi, patto aakaase a.t.thaasi."

                  YP: She took the bowl and threw (it) into the sky, the bowl stayed in the air.

                  Shortened: Taaya gahetvaa aakaasa.m khitto patto tattha a.t.thaasi.

                  YP: The bowl, taken by her and thrown to the air, stood there.

                  (i) "Bhagavaa mahaa-bhikkhusa`ngha-parivuto Raajagaha.m agamaasi, tattha gatakaale Mahaa-Moggallaanatthero parinibbaayi."

                  YP: The Blessed One, accompanied by the great community of monks, went to Rajagaha, there, at the time (he) went, the elder Maha-Moggallana attained final emancipation.

                  Shortened: Mahaabhikkhusa`ngha-parivute Bhagavati Raajagaha.m gate Mahaa-Moggallaanatthero parinibbaayi.

                  YP: When the Blessed One, accompanied by the great community of monks, went to Rajagaha, the elder Maha-Moggallana attained final emancipation.

                  ref: http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/synthesis/pali3.00.cdv
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