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Re: {Spam?} [Pali] Re: The New Pali Course Part II [3-8/8]

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  • Joop Wibier
    Dear Members, Till now I have been a lurking member of the group, but I think that I can now be of help. In the first place, please add also my name to the
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 21, 2008
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      Dear Members,

      Till now I have been a lurking member of the group, but I think that I can now be of help. In the first place, please add also my name to the list of those interested
      in looking at Saddaniiti. Very useful for this study can also be the following publication:
      Journal of the Pali Text Society, 1992, "Exploring the Saddaniiti", Vol. XVII, pp. 1-212. Almost the entire volume is dedicated to Saddaniiti, with large chunks of Saddaniiti translated into
      English.

      With Metta,

      Joop Wibier
      The Netherlands

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: gdbedell
      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 4:03 AM
      Subject: {Spam?} [Pali] Re: The New Pali Course Part II [3-8/8]


      Please add my name to the list of those interested in looking at Saddaniiti.

      Before starting, it might be a good idea to think a little about what to expect from it. In
      general, the original object of Pali grammars (including those of Kaccaayana and Moggallaana
      as well as Saddaniiti) was to show that Paali (and the Paali canon) are of equal (or greater)
      value with Sanskrit by showing that ideas developed in the Sanskrit grammatical tradition
      apply also to Paali. Since the two languages are closely related this is not an unreasonable
      approach (it was applied also in the case of unrelated languages such as Tamil and Tibetan).
      But the Paali grammarians did not set out to write the grammar of Paali on the basis of
      primary data (the canon); rather they formulated rules based on those given in Sanskrit
      grammars and then searched for relevant examples in the canon. This perspective is
      controversial, and no doubt requires some adjustment, but I believe it is correct (see in
      particular Kahrs' 'Exploring the Saddaniiti' PTS XVII, 1992).

      If it is correct, we shouldn't expect to find immediate answers to many questions of
      interpretation of the canon in Saddaniiti, though we may find relevant evidence that we would
      not otherwise have noticed. At the elementary level, Jon Fernquist is quite right that we can
      learn Aggava.msa's terminology and what he said more easily from Steven Collins than from
      Saddaniiti itself. At the more advanced level, we cannot really understand Saddaniiti without
      reference to the Sanskrit tradition.

      The part of Saddaniiti most directly parallel to other grammars (Kaccaayana, Moggallaana) is
      the suttamaalaa, which I gather is not accessible online. So we should probably concentrate
      on the padamaalaa, which contains many noun and verb paradigms rather than abstract rules
      for forming them. Even so, it is 314 pages in the PTS edition of Helmer Smith's text. (I doubt
      there is any French translation of Saddaniiti; what Ong Yong Peng heard seems to reflect the
      French introduction to Smith's edition, originally published in Sweden). There are editions in
      Burmese and Thai orthographies, and also a Burmese nissaya (bilingual commentary).

      I have written a couple of papers on Paali grammar which concentrate on noun and verb
      paradigms. They don't contain any information on Paali (much less Buddhism) that you don't
      already know, but they do explore how the early grammarians formulated their ideas, and
      how these ideas compare with modern linguistics. I refer directly to Moggallaana rather than
      Saddaniiti, but in this area there are only terminological differences. If anyone is interested I
      can send copies in either .doc or .pdf format. It would be best to contact me directly offline.





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