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Re: [Pali] Does the Mahayana Vinaya text contain the Maha- and Cullavagga?

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  • Bruce Burrill
    Actually Mahayana monks in China and Tibet follow non-Mahayana Vinayas, but as to your question, I don t know.
    Message 1 of 40 , Oct 13, 2002
      Actually Mahayana monks in China and Tibet follow non-Mahayana Vinayas, but
      as to your question, I don't know.

      At 04:27 PM 10/13/02 +0800, you wrote:
      >Dear all,
      >
      >Wonder if anyone can tell me this:
      >While we can find among the Mayahana texts a Pratimoksha that is not far
      >too different from that of the Pali Patimokkha, is there any Mahayana
      >equivalent of the Mahavagga and Cullavagga of the Pali Vinaya Pitaka?
      >
      >Also, I'd appreciate any recommendation of a good book on the history of
      >Buddhism in China. I'm particularly interested in the introduction
      >Buddhism there and how certain ideas and practices evolved.
      >
      >Thank you.
      >
      >peace
      >
      >Ven Kumâra
      >
      >
      >
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    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Sakya, thanks very much for the reply. I would greatly appreciate if you could answer a few more questions. 1. Saakya Niruttiya is used by the Samanic
      Message 40 of 40 , Nov 17, 2002
        Dear Sakya,

        thanks very much for the reply. I would greatly appreciate if you
        could answer a few more questions.

        1. Saakya Niruttiya is used by the Samanic group. Does that not mean
        it was used by other non-Buddhist groups (such as Jainism) as well?

        2. All brahmans and kshatriyas, including Buddha, received their
        childhood education in Sanskrit (or Vedic), doesn't that make
        Sanskrit/Vedic the official medium.

        3. Vedic/Sanskrit was brought into India by the Aryan people from the
        north. For many years, Brahmanism remained the only religion and
        Vedic the only language in the northern region (the original religion
        and language was suppressed). Samanic traditions started only at a
        much later time, with Buddhism making to the top of the groups. Even
        so, Brahmanism still remain as the dominant religion, Vedic the
        dominant language, and the Brahmans the dominant (caste) even up till
        today. How did Saakya Niruttya get into the spotlight, in the proper
        historical context?

        Thank you,
        Yong Peng.

        --- sakyaumanathan wrote:
        > Namo Buddha
        >
        > India had two major traditions in ancient time i.e. Samana and
        Vedic
        > traditions. Buddha was from Samana tradition. Sakya Niruttya was
        the
        > languge used by Samanic group while Vedic people had their own
        > languge called Vedic language. Saakya Niruttiya had scripts even
        > before 5 th B.C. The entire Dhamma Scripts are called Ti Pitaka,
        > means three baskets. It is called three baskets because; in ancient
        > days the scripts were kept in baskets. Prof Rhys Davis, has quoted
        > many evidences to prove written documents of Saakya Niruttiya on
        > wood, skin etc. in the 5th B.C. (see Buddhist India of same
        author).
        > Saakya Niruttiya was not the language of small part of North India,
        > but language of entire Indian sub-continent including Sri Lanka.
        King
        > Asoka used Aramic and some other languages out side India while
        > Saakya Niruttiya for all over India. The entire sub continent knew
        > Saakya Niruttiya. Not only Asokan inscriptions, but there are many
        > other Sakyan inscriptions we have found in Deep South of India as
        > well as Sri-Lanka. The inscriptions of Ajantha and Ellora prove the
        > existence of Saakyan community in Ajantha and Ellora region. Many
        of
        > the medieval Tamil literatures deal with Saakyan community shows
        the
        > existence of Sakyan community in the medieval period in Deep
        South.
        >
        > In Ancient days the Vedic language did not have script. It was not
        > literary tradition, but oral tradition. The date cannot be
        > authentically said as we can say to Saakya Niruttiya. For Saakya
        > Niruttiya, we can use carbon dating to prove the dates of
        > inscriptions and manuscripts. We cannot use any scientific methods
        to
        > tell the exact period of Vedic literatures. Some Historians
        > calculated as 5000 years back. The same period India had a grate
        > India civilization like Indus. If we compare the material culture
        of
        > Indus people and oral culture of Vedic, both do not suit to each
        > other's. But the Samanic tradition can be traced the origin in
        Indus.
        > Many of the Symbols in Indus are belonged to Samanic tradition.
        >
        > In Samanic tradition there were many sects after Sakyamuni Buddha.
        > Hinayana and Mahayana were the major traditions. Mahayana was
        famous
        > in northern part of India and beyond while Hinayana was famous in
        > southern part. Nalandha adopted Mahayana tradition while Kanchi
        > remained as Henayana tradition. The Mahayana tradition adopted a
        new
        > language with the mixer of language of new languages enter in to
        > India from east Europe and central Asia. Many of the commentary
        were
        > written in a new language called Prakrit. The Prakrit was later
        > developed as high breed Sanskrit by Mahayana Buddhist. This is the
        > period the Vedic people had adopted the newly developed language
        for
        > their religious discourses. Many of the Buddhist Sanskrit scripts
        > which are found in Central Asia. The similar texts in India are
        > claimed to be Hindu scripts. The literary Sanskrit was developed
        > somewhere between 4 A.D. and 7 A.D. In this period a rigid Varna or
        > Caste System, based on birth was developed, the Brahmin elite class
        > claimed whole authority over education, knowledge and Brahmanical
        > Sanskrit scripts. The Shudras were denied education and knowledge.
        > Buddhism was declined and Saakyan Community (Buddhists) was
        degraded
        > as UNTOUCHABLES. Buddha was abused through the Sanskrit Hindu
        Puranas
        > and Saakya Niruttiya was abused as language of out caste.
        >
        > Sakya Niruttiya was remained as a language of southern Buddhist for
        > longer period. Even in 13 A. D. Saakya Niruttiya had high profile
        in
        > southern India. New grammar books were written in this period. A
        > Chola king had requested Saakya grammarian to write Tamil grammar
        in
        > this period. The author of "Virasozhiyam" (a Tamil grammar book)
        was
        > a grate scholar of Saakya Niruttiya. Saakya Niruttiya had also
        > undergone changes in these periods.
        >
        > Saakya Niruttiya was totally declined in India not only from the
        > status of State/ medium of instruction / literary language but also
        > lost the states of spoken language. Now the Historical question of
        > Indian linguistic history is how a highly developed language,
        totally
        > wiped out from its own land.
        >
        > Metta
        > Sakya
        > Bavatu Sabba Mangalam
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