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Re: Tipitaka Citations

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  • ong.yongpeng
    Dear Jon, I have been mainly using CSCD edition of the Tipitaka for our sutta translation exercises. (CST4, which is currently under development, will
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 1, 2008
      Dear Jon,

      I have been mainly using CSCD edition of the Tipitaka for our sutta
      translation exercises. (CST4, which is currently under development,
      will eventually succeed CSCD.) In addition, there are other editions
      freely available online. We also have a wiki which aims to make
      browsing SLTP (from the Journal of Buddhist Ethics site) easier.

      Our future sutta translation exercises will continue using CSCD (and
      CST4), I may also use SLTP and other public domain and open content
      versions, to encourage and support good works in Dhamma publications.
      I mainly use CSCD because I can browse the CD-ROM contents offline.

      If you search for Rhys Davids on Google, you may find several of his
      works already available online. By using a dual screen, with multiple
      windows open and displaying Pali in one and English (or other
      languages) in the other(s), you can easily set up a simple parallel
      Tipitaka.

      metta,
      Yong Peng.


      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Jon Fernquest wrote:

      The only online Pali versions that I've ever used are the CSCD versions.

      As for the English translations, the copyright on the Rhys Davids
      translations must have run out already. Wonder why it hasn't been
      scanned and put online?
    • Jon Fernquest
      Dear Yong Peng; I have been mainly using CSCD edition of the Tipitaka for our sutta translation exercises. (CST4, which is currently under development, will
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 10, 2008
        Dear Yong Peng;

        "I have been mainly using CSCD edition of the Tipitaka for our sutta

        translation exercises. (CST4, which is currently under development,

        will eventually succeed CSCD.) In addition, there are other editions

        freely available online. We also have a wiki which aims to make

        browsing SLTP (from the Journal of Buddhist Ethics site) easier."


        Thank you for the information about CST4 and SLTP.
        I wasn't aware of their existence.
        Where is the Wiki?


        "If you search for Rhys Davids on Google, you may find several of his

        works already available online. By using a dual screen, with multiple

        windows open and displaying Pali in one and English (or other

        languages) in the other(s), you can easily set up a simple parallel

        Tipitaka."

        I do something like this sometimes but it takes a long time,
        slowed down finding the matching text between the Pali and English.

        One of these days I'm going to try my hand with statistical based alignment of the Pali Jatakas. with their English translation. I have all the necessary texts on my hard drive now.
        It requires some creative programming but there  are papers  detailing the techniques.

        First, you'd need to lematise the words, eliminate inflection and conjugation, map the nouns to third person singular and verbs to their stem (or something like that). Then the search engine searches on these lematised words.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmatisation

        The result of a query would be Pali sentences and their English translation. I use two corpuses everyday to create phrases to practice reading a word. Ideally I would include the Thai translation but I only use a single language corpus:
        http://www.americancorpus.org/
        http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/
        http://www.readbangkokpost.com/businesswords/

        Such a search engine for Pali sentences aligned with their translation could be used as the basis of induction driven language learning. Buddhadata-like sentences are great because they simplify the grammar but real life sentences are a lot tougher as I.B. Horner's little parallel Pali-English Jataka reader makes clear.

        With metta,
        Jon Fernquest

         

        --- On Fri, 8/1/08, ong.yongpeng <pali.smith@...> wrote:
        From: ong.yongpeng <pali.smith@...>
        Subject: [Pali] Re: Tipitaka Citations
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 8:42 PM











        Dear Jon,



        I have been mainly using CSCD edition of the Tipitaka for our sutta

        translation exercises. (CST4, which is currently under development,

        will eventually succeed CSCD.) In addition, there are other editions

        freely available online. We also have a wiki which aims to make

        browsing SLTP (from the Journal of Buddhist Ethics site) easier.



        Our future sutta translation exercises will continue using CSCD (and

        CST4), I may also use SLTP and other public domain and open content

        versions, to encourage and support good works in Dhamma publications.

        I mainly use CSCD because I can browse the CD-ROM contents offline.



        If you search for Rhys Davids on Google, you may find several of his

        works already available online. By using a dual screen, with multiple

        windows open and displaying Pali in one and English (or other

        languages) in the other(s), you can easily set up a simple parallel

        Tipitaka.



        metta,

        Yong Peng.



        --- In Pali@yahoogroups. com, Jon Fernquest wrote:



        The only online Pali versions that I've ever used are the CSCD versions.



        As for the English translations, the copyright on the Rhys Davids

        translations must have run out already. Wonder why it hasn't been

        scanned and put online?





























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ong.yongpeng
        Dear Jon and friends, the wiki is here: http://tipitaka.pbwiki.com/ Again, anyone keen in helping to complete the entire tipitaka, please let me know. Jon, as
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 11, 2008
          Dear Jon and friends,

          the wiki is here: http://tipitaka.pbwiki.com/

          Again, anyone keen in helping to complete the entire tipitaka, please
          let me know.

          Jon, as for your proposed work, statistics is an area which I like.
          ;-) The group has completed the whole of AN1 in trilinear format,
          which you may find helpful. I have also done some foundation works on
          Pali Scope, http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/scope/. You are welcome to
          use the data as required. If you are interested, you are also welcome
          to provide assistance to the project (Pali Scope). The project is very
          extensive, the first phase is to build up a substantial repository of
          Pali words directly from the Tipitaka (probably only AN of Sutta
          Pitaka). As a lexicordance, it will eventually have a lexicon and a
          concordance built to utilise the database. A parallel translator can
          also be incorporated, if you like to provide the technical
          functionalities.

          Unlike the wikis, Pali Scope is not open for free editing, but any
          information on Pali Scope is free for use.

          metta,
          Yong Peng.


          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Jon Fernquest wrote:

          Where is the Wiki?

          One of these days I'm going to try my hand with statistical based
          alignment of the Pali Jatakas. with their English translation. I have
          all the necessary texts on my hard drive now.
          It requires some creative programming but there� are papers� detailing
          the techniques.

          First, you'd need to lematise the words, eliminate inflection and
          conjugation, map the nouns to third person singular and verbs to their
          stem (or something like that). Then the search engine searches on
          these lematised words.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemmatisation
        • Jon Fernquest
          Dear Yong Peng; ... Yes, I would very much like to help out. But it will have to be slowly because working at the online part of a newspaper I publish 65
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 12, 2008
            Dear Yong Peng;

            > Again, anyone keen in helping to complete the entire tipitaka, please
            > let me know.

            Yes, I would very much like to help out.
            But it will have to be slowly because working
            at the online part of a newspaper I publish 65 articles
            a month on economics and business in Thailand so
            my brain is usually resembles scrambled eggs.

            For an interesting example of lemmatization, check out volume I
            (nouns.pdf) on the following site at INRIA:

            http://sanskrit.inria.fr/

            Every entry is a little information preserving map between
            the inflected Sanskrit form and the uninflected form with
            the grammatical information that specifies the inflection.
            Unfortunately, this doesn't exist for Pali yet.

            Have you seen the following sites?

            http://sanskrit.inria.fr/
            http://ralyx.inria.fr/2007/Raweb/signes/uid43.html
            http://ralyx.inria.fr/2007/Raweb/signes/uid39.html

            Author of tools:
            http://pauillac.inria.fr/~huet/

            Sanskrit has all the necessary tools written already,
            albeit in CAML, a functional language.
            including a declension engine that adds grammatical inflections
            and a lemmatiser that maps them to their basic (stem) form.
            They don't appear to be open source.

            Institut national de recherche en informatique et en automatique (INRIA)
            (English: National Institute for Research in Computer Science and
            Control) is a French national research institution focusing on computer
            science, control theory and applied mathematics.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INRIA

            For looking up Pali words a full dictionary
            with fully inflected forms similar to this one
            would be highly useful. Right now there is just
            too many missing entries:

            http://www.dicts.info/dictionary.php?k1=1&k2=442

            With metta,
            Jon Fernquest
          • ong.yongpeng
            Dear Jon, thanks for the reference sites. The one quoted below is real interesting. I do foresee the lexicon section of PaliScope to provide full paradigms of
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 12, 2008
              Dear Jon,

              thanks for the reference sites. The one quoted below is real
              interesting. I do foresee the lexicon section of PaliScope to provide
              full paradigms of nouns and verbs as you mentioned.

              In addition to what is discussed so far, we would also need advice and
              assistance in two major areas. First, linguistic experts to advise on
              stuff like lemmatization, and so on. Second, Pali readers who can
              provide cross-referencing over several editions of the Tipitaka.

              Hence, I believe the project will be a progressive one, where data and
              functionality are added over time. Please let me know when you are
              ready to start.

              metta,
              Yong Peng.


              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Jon Fernquest wrote:

              Yes, I would very much like to help out. But it will have to be slowly
              because working at the online part of a newspaper I publish 65
              articles a month on economics and business in Thailand so my brain is
              usually resembles scrambled eggs.

              For looking up Pali words a full dictionary with fully inflected forms
              similar to this one would be highly useful. Right now there is just
              too many missing entries:

              http://www.dicts.info/dictionary.php?k1=1&k2=442
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