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Re: question about 'yam.'

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  • Robert Eddison
    ... Dear Tzungkuen, Here ya.m is a special use of the neuter singular of yo. It is functioning as an adverb or conjunction rather than a relative pronoun. When
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 8, 2002
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      Tzungkuen:

      >Could anybody tell me why the term 'yam.' is in the following sentence?
      >What does 'yam.' mean here? Thank you in advance.
      >
      >yam. kho so, mahaaraaja, set.t.hi gahapati taggarasikhim.
      >paccekasambuddham. pin.d.apaatena pat.ipaadesi, tassa kammassa vipaakena
      >sattakkhattum. sugatim. saggam. lokam. upapajji.
      >[Now, sir, by the effect of his action in bestowing alms on the Silent
      >Buddha, Tagarasikkhi, he was reborn seven times to a happy destiny in
      >heavenly world.]( PTS's translation)

      Dear Tzungkuen,

      Here ya.m is a special use of the neuter singular of yo. It is functioning
      as an adverb or conjunction rather than a relative pronoun. When used in
      this way, it can have several different meanings. In the
      Abhidhaanappadiipikaa (verse 1145) these are given as:

      Ta.m: there, thither (to there), therefore, now, as
      Yato: inasmuch as, since, because, from the time when, from the place where
      Tato: from that place/time, subsequently
      Yena: for which, whereby, because, by the way that, in the place where
      Tena: for that, thereby, therefore, in the place there
      Iti: thus, so

      The commentaries rarely offer any gloss on the word, so usually one just
      has to consider all the possibilities and judge which one best fits the
      context. It's best to begin with 'now', 'as', 'because' and 'therefore', as
      these seem to be the most common meanings.

      Childers' dictionary (p 603) has a good collection of sample sentences
      showing the use of ya.m in this sense.

      Best wishes,

      Robert
    • tzungkuen
      Dear Robert: I deeply appreciate your much helpful explanation. But what is Abhidhaanappadiipikaa? a grammar book ? And can you give me the details of
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 8, 2002
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        Dear Robert:

        I deeply appreciate your much helpful explanation.
        But what is Abhidhaanappadiipikaa? a grammar book ?
        And can you give me the details of Childers' dictionary including its publisher.

        with metta

        Tzungkuen
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Robert Eddison
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 9:11 PM
        Subject: [Pali] Re: question about 'yam.'


        Tzungkuen:

        >Could anybody tell me why the term 'yam.' is in the following sentence?
        >What does 'yam.' mean here? Thank you in advance.
        >
        >yam. kho so, mahaaraaja, set.t.hi gahapati taggarasikhim.
        >paccekasambuddham. pin.d.apaatena pat.ipaadesi, tassa kammassa vipaakena
        >sattakkhattum. sugatim. saggam. lokam. upapajji.
        >[Now, sir, by the effect of his action in bestowing alms on the Silent
        >Buddha, Tagarasikkhi, he was reborn seven times to a happy destiny in
        >heavenly world.]( PTS's translation)

        Dear Tzungkuen,

        Here ya.m is a special use of the neuter singular of yo. It is functioning
        as an adverb or conjunction rather than a relative pronoun. When used in
        this way, it can have several different meanings. In the
        Abhidhaanappadiipikaa (verse 1145) these are given as:

        Ta.m: there, thither (to there), therefore, now, as
        Yato: inasmuch as, since, because, from the time when, from the place where
        Tato: from that place/time, subsequently
        Yena: for which, whereby, because, by the way that, in the place where
        Tena: for that, thereby, therefore, in the place there
        Iti: thus, so

        The commentaries rarely offer any gloss on the word, so usually one just
        has to consider all the possibilities and judge which one best fits the
        context. It's best to begin with 'now', 'as', 'because' and 'therefore', as
        these seem to be the most common meanings.

        Childers' dictionary (p 603) has a good collection of sample sentences
        showing the use of ya.m in this sense.

        Best wishes,

        Robert





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      • Kumaara Bhikkhu
        ... That. ... Great King, that wealthy householder, who provided the Tagarasikkhi Private Buddha with alms food, by the result of his action, was reborn seven
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 9, 2002
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          At 11:29 PM 05-10-02, you wrote:
          >Dear dhammafriends
          >
          >Could anybody tell me why the term 'yam.' is in the following sentence? What does 'yam.' mean here? Thank you in advance.

          That.

          >yam. kho so, mahaaraaja, set.t.hi gahapati taggarasikhim. paccekasambuddham. pin.d.apaatena pat.ipaadesi, tassa kammassa vipaakena sattakkhattum. sugatim. saggam. lokam. upapajji.
          >[Now, sir, by the effect of his action in bestowing alms on the Silent Buddha, Tagarasikkhi, he was reborn seven times to a happy destiny in heavenly world.]( PTS's translation)

          Great King, that wealthy householder, who provided the Tagarasikkhi Private Buddha with alms food, by the result of his action, was reborn seven times in a happy destiny, a heavenly world.

          peace

          Ven Kumâra
        • abhidhammika
          Dear Tzungkuen, Nina, Robert Eddison, Kumara Bhikkhu and all, How are you, dhamma friends? The yam in the following Pali is a connector between the action
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 9, 2002
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            Dear Tzungkuen, Nina, Robert Eddison, Kumara Bhikkhu and all,

            How are you, dhamma friends?

            The "yam" in the following Pali is a connector between the action and
            the result. As Robert described, "yam" is a neuter pronoun.
            And,"kammam" is also a neuter noun. Thus, "yam" relates to "kammam".
            Therefore, "yam" can be translated as a relative pronoun.


            Please view my translation below.

            "yam. kho so, mahaaraaja, set.t.hi gahapati taggarasikhim.
            paccekasambuddham. pin.d.apaatena pat.ipaadesi, tassa kammassa
            vipaakena sattakkhattum. sugatim. saggam. lokam. upapajji."

            "Great King, that rich householder, by the result of the action that
            was to have satisfied Taggarasikhi Paccekasambuddha with food, had
            been reborn seven times in the well-destined heavenly world."


            With kind regards

            Suan Lu Zaw

            http://www.bodhiology.org


            --- In Pali@y..., "tzungkuen" <tzungkuen@y...> wrote:

            Dear dhammafriends

            Could anybody tell me why the term 'yam.' is in the following
            sentence? What
            does 'yam.' mean here? Thank you in advance.

            yam. kho so, mahaaraaja, set.t.hi gahapati taggarasikhim.
            paccekasambuddham. pin.d.apaatena pat.ipaadesi, tassa kammassa
            vipaakena sattakkhattum. sugatim. saggam. lokam. upapajji.
            [Now, sir, by the effect of his action in bestowing alms on the
            Silent Buddha,
            Tagarasikkhi, he was reborn seven times to a happy destiny in
            heavenly world.](
            PTS's translation)

            with metta

            Tzungkuen
          • Robert Eddison
            ... Dear Tzungkuen, The Abhidhaanappadiipikaa is commonly referred to as the first Pali dictionary, though it is really a thesaurus. It was composed by the
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 10, 2002
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              Tzungkuen:

              >I deeply appreciate your much helpful explanation.
              >But what is Abhidhaanappadiipikaa? a grammar book ?

              Dear Tzungkuen,

              The Abhidhaanappadiipikaa is commonly referred to as the first Pali
              dictionary, though it is really a thesaurus. It was composed by the
              grammarian Moggallaana in 12th century Ceylon. It lists groups of synonyms
              in quatrains, with nouns grouped together according to their gender. In
              traditional-style Pali education the student would memorize the whole text
              (1203 verses) and then study a commentary to learn what the words mean. I'm
              told they still do it this way in Burma and in some of the more
              conservative Pali schools in Sri Lanka.


              >And can you give me the details of Childers' dictionary including its publisher.

              "A Dictionary of the Pali Language" by Robert Caesar Childers (London 1874).

              My own copy was published by the Buddha Sasana Council Press, Kaba-Aye,
              Burma in 1974. I believe the most recent edition is from some publishing
              house in India. A search of http://www.bookfinder.com/ came up with several
              new and used copies, with a price range from $25 to $490 (if you want a
              first edition).

              The search also came up with a Pali grammar by Childers, which I hadn't
              heard of before. Has anyone seen this?

              In some ways I prefer Childers' dictionary to the PED, even though it came
              out in the very early days of western Pali scholarship. The numerous sample
              sentences he gives to illustrate the use of words are often remarkably well
              translated, putting later scholars like Woodward and Mrs. Rhys Davids to
              shame. In my estimation Childers was also a more careful lexicographer than
              T.W. Rhys Davids and Stede. The errors and omissions in his dictionary
              largely arise from the very limited range of texts he had to work with,
              whereas those in the PED appear to be the result of slovenliness and haste.
              Another advantage is that Childers included all the words in the
              Abhidhaanappadiipikaa, some of which are omitted in the PED. This makes him
              a useful source for reading post-canonical texts.

              Finally, I should mention that his dictionary is in English alphabetical
              order. When it was published he came in for some criticism for this from
              the crustier sort of Sanskrit scholars, but it does mean a beginner in Pali
              can look up words more quickly than in the PED or Buddhadatta.

              Best wishes,

              Robert
            • abhidhammika
              Dear Robert Eddison (and Tzungkuen) You wrote: In traditional-style Pali education the student would memorize the whole text(1203 verses) and then study a
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 11, 2002
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                Dear Robert Eddison (and Tzungkuen)


                You wrote:

                "In traditional-style Pali education the student would memorize the
                whole text(1203 verses) and then study a commentary to learn what the
                words mean. I'm told they still do it this way in Burma and in some
                of the more conservative Pali schools in Sri Lanka."

                Yes, you are right. They still do. I have a Pali Nissaya copy of
                Abhidhaanappadiipikaa. The Nissaya author, Sayadaw Ashin Kelaasa,
                wrote in the introduction to his work that he, as a fifteen-years-old
                saama.nera, studied Kaccaayana Saddaa in 3 months, and memorised 2
                gaathaas of Abhidhaanappadiipikaa and recited them to his teacher
                Sayadaw each day. Due to this rgular effort, when he sat for
                examinations in later years, he no longer needed to learn
                Abhidhaanappadiipikaa again because he had already mastered it.

                In fact, when he said he studied Kaccaayana Saddaa, he must have
                meant that he memorised it in portions first and learnt explanations
                from his teacher Sayadaw each day for 3 months.

                Sayadaw Ashin Kelaasa is also one of the Sayadaws who have undertaken
                to write some parts of the multi-volumes Tipi.taka Pali - Myanmar
                Dictionaries.

                By the way, the term "Ashin" in his name, Ashin Kelaasa, means
                Saami.

                With kind regards,

                Suan

                http://www.bodhiology.org



                --- In Pali@y..., Robert Eddison <robedd@i...> wrote:

                Tzungkuen:

                >I deeply appreciate your much helpful explanation.
                >But what is Abhidhaanappadiipikaa? a grammar book ?

                Dear Tzungkuen,

                The Abhidhaanappadiipikaa is commonly referred to as the first Pali
                dictionary, though it is really a thesaurus. It was composed by the
                grammarian Moggallaana in 12th century Ceylon. It lists groups of
                synonyms
                in quatrains, with nouns grouped together according to their gender.
                In
                traditional-style Pali education the student would memorize the whole
                text
                (1203 verses) and then study a commentary to learn what the words
                mean. I'm
                told they still do it this way in Burma and in some of the more
                conservative Pali schools in Sri Lanka.


                >And can you give me the details of Childers' dictionary including its
                publisher.

                "A Dictionary of the Pali Language" by Robert Caesar Childers (London
                1874).

                My own copy was published by the Buddha Sasana Council Press, Kaba-
                Aye,
                Burma in 1974. I believe the most recent edition is from some
                publishing
                house in India. A search of http://www.bookfinder.com/ came up with
                several
                new and used copies, with a price range from $25 to $490 (if you want
                a
                first edition).

                The search also came up with a Pali grammar by Childers, which I
                hadn't
                heard of before. Has anyone seen this?

                In some ways I prefer Childers' dictionary to the PED, even though it
                came
                out in the very early days of western Pali scholarship. The numerous
                sample
                sentences he gives to illustrate the use of words are often
                remarkably well
                translated, putting later scholars like Woodward and Mrs. Rhys Davids
                to
                shame. In my estimation Childers was also a more careful
                lexicographer than
                T.W. Rhys Davids and Stede. The errors and omissions in his dictionary
                largely arise from the very limited range of texts he had to work
                with,
                whereas those in the PED appear to be the result of slovenliness and
                haste.
                Another advantage is that Childers included all the words in the
                Abhidhaanappadiipikaa, some of which are omitted in the PED. This
                makes him
                a useful source for reading post-canonical texts.

                Finally, I should mention that his dictionary is in English
                alphabetical
                order. When it was published he came in for some criticism for this
                from
                the crustier sort of Sanskrit scholars, but it does mean a beginner
                in Pali
                can look up words more quickly than in the PED or Buddhadatta.

                Best wishes,

                Robert
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