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Re: noble truth

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Bhante, your analysis of dukkha is interesting. I have never understood the word that way. Can you elaborate more, and can we apply similar analysis to
    Message 1 of 27 , May 6, 2008
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      Bhante,

      your analysis of dukkha is interesting. I have never understood the
      word that way. Can you elaborate more, and can we apply similar
      analysis to sukha? Thanks.


      metta,
      Yong Peng.

      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, joseph wrote:

      Du Kha actually means bad space, it is in relation to the actual brain
      space, the embodiment of a personal mind, and I use the words in the
      most conventional way. so actually, it simply means bad, trouble, if
      you look at the definition, it is simply that life is trouble, not
      pessimistic or nihilistic, the understanding is such.
    • Gunnar Gällmo
      Does anyone know what happened to the on-line version of the Ven. Nyanaponikas German translation of the Suttanipata? I used to find it at
      Message 2 of 27 , May 6, 2008
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        Does anyone know what happened to the on-line version
        of the Ven. Nyanaponikas German translation of the
        Suttanipata? I used to find it at
        http://www.palikanon.com/khuddaka/sn , but now I get a
        message that "Looks like the page you're looking for
        was moved or never existed". It did exist, so where
        has it moved?

        Gunnar


        http://metrobloggen.se/esperanto


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      • joseph
        Dear Friends Specifically Kha is related to `one s environment (probably K.R.Norman),One s space . Maybe even relates to `Aura .the physical energy that
        Message 3 of 27 , May 7, 2008
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          Dear Friends
          Specifically Kha is related to `one's environment'(probably
          K.R.Norman),One's space'. Maybe even relates to `Aura'.the physical
          energy that surrounds the body.
          While, funny enough. This is a reference to the mind, the may we
          say, `non Physical brain'
          Mana' the ignorant man constant thinking is by Comparing
          himself with others, asmi mana is conceit and maana is measuring.
          Du Manasa relates specifically to depression, which is only one facet
          of Dhuka.

          probably even NamaRupa may relate to the reality that is experienced
          as Mind and Brain, since the body, and Physical reality, is truly the
          experience related to the Physical brain, only by extention, we
          think, or there is in this conditioned view of the body.
          This is per se, when the Buddha says `There is a body' Atthi Kayo.
          We are faced with a reality, undeniable experience.
          So this is again an example of the Indian mind set. And the vital
          necessity to see the
          Circumstances of the lessons, much in the way a Sutta lesson, should
          be seen at it's context, the wider, and the specific one.

          any way I like to think about the logical way this highly idiomatic
          language forms.
          Based on simple, logical conventions of speech and common
          understanding,
          Often the Pali translation is difficult not only in grammatical
          terms but possibly in deeper rooted convictions, maybe it boils down
          too, eventually to our view of a `self',

          It's a little beside the point, and may look pretentious and high,
          but there this example Of the quantum mechanics Theory
          Quantum mechanics taught us that there is no objective point of view,
          no observer that is outside the system, it is, I think, easy to see
          the Buddhist relevance of it, as the
          `not self' characteristic of existence. Anatta.

          Consciousness is a biological necessity and responds accordingly,
          with the necessary self deceit and profit seeking.
          No truth but seeing this very process.

          The meaning of Nibbana is just this `stopping of the game', resting
          from the universal laws of desire, hatred and delusion which push us
          to participate in the formation of further actions, preparations and
          intentions Sankhara.
          This process-game' is based on our ignorance to the fact that there
          is no entity, point of view, absolute reality which is `Me'

          Our binding action starts by desire, longing, which, because of
          ignorance make us believe in the possibility of real satisfaction,
          real realization in this world or beyond it, as religious
          gratification.

          Now this is a dangerous point and must it be understood that there is
          no place for nihilism, destructive psychological tendencies and so
          on, it is simply often beyond our capacity to face the void, the
          emotional emptiness which is the basic nature of reality, existence,
          the world.
          so we often run, with the encouragement of an ego mental protection,
          in to illusion, a religion , taking side on order to belong..

          materialism too is making for a philosophy, a belief, even the
          Atheist.
          attachment to logic, a view of a future hope of success.
          science, though taking the quantum opportuinity per se, is not
          manifesting a belief in the passive freedom that is opened up, it
          cannot function that way, it remains the tool of progress and greed.

          This is not bad; it's actually a social reality.
          But truth can be experienced and realized, it may need training, as
          it rises only at the space that is created by inner quietude,
          serenity, peacefulness.
          I think the use of the word `space' is most satisfactory.

          Su Kha is happiness, mental exhilaration that contains physical or
          mental feeling.
          Both can be experienced as a bodily experience.
          But the duality su/du
          may also relate to `the bad path' the un wholesome way which stands
          in relation to the Eight fold path (see M.N. 117).
          While here the idea of Samma is crucial.

          Nibbana, by reality and definition, is `the cessation of the causes
          of the bad' The simple denial of the cause, not `happy or `sad'.

          It relates to a mind attitude, feeling, reality circumstances and
          above all, to rebirth, re enactment of existence in illusion, life.

          Equanimity is quite close, but it lacks the Quantum! leap of the
          light which has a quality of Metta, the active avoidance of
          attachment, which , in relation to a 'self' is 'other' Anna.

          `Since Nibbana exists, the way to develop it is the only wisdom'.
          Hence Buddhism,
          but simply, understanding this Can be, must be, implemented as part
          of any world view,
          it's easy to see the case above as relating to one worldly way, but
          religion, even in a
          clearer fashion should be a base for the Dhamma.
          the Buddha himself has accepted the old Indian gods.
          the Tibetans , too, has Idam, a personal god, a protector of the
          search for the Dhamma.
          .Sri lankan have gods to refer to when trouble (the chief one is
          Kataragama, the residence, the name of the town here)
          The Jewish Shekhina' is similar, I think it is presence', or the
          Indian concept of Shakti, the power, presence, manifestation, female
          side of the various gods.
          This is advanced theology, too much actually.
          It may be any chosen god of belief, why not?

          But a belief that negates the quantum is a wrong view which lead to
          suffering…
          No god is this eternal point, the causeless cause, whatever the
          religious imaginations like to make of their traditional, past based
          yearnings.

          Now there is the presence of the path, that means the right way.
          The preliminary thought may be connected to belief, faith, which is a
          good place to start, but not necessarily, not, as we show, as a
          matter of taking sides, but a personal,
          Lonely often, experience of the consequences of truth,

          Sorry, I was writing a sermon when I saw the letter, so it all came
          out like that..
          I meant to elaborate more about the linguistic aspect, as you see,
          amateurism may sometimes be an advantage.

          I also find, in order to fully engulf some unnecessary conventions,
          it may be helpful to
          See some ideas of later Buddhist schools, and even of the Indian
          sphere.

          Metta
          Jothiko


          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <pali.smith@...> wrote:
          >
          > Bhante,
          >
          > your analysis of dukkha is interesting. I have never understood the
          > word that way. Can you elaborate more, and can we apply similar
          > analysis to sukha? Thanks.
          >
          >
          > metta,
          > Yong Peng.
          >
          > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, joseph wrote:
          >
          > Du Kha actually means bad space, it is in relation to the actual
          brain
          > space, the embodiment of a personal mind, and I use the words in the
          > most conventional way. so actually, it simply means bad, trouble,
          if
          > you look at the definition, it is simply that life is trouble, not
          > pessimistic or nihilistic, the understanding is such.
          >
        • joseph
          ... can we apply similar ... Dear friends Su = good, positive Kha = space, presence. the idiom of positive space can be seen as three fold: amisa sukha -
          Message 4 of 27 , May 9, 2008
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            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <pali.smith@...> wrote:
            >
            can we apply similar
            > analysis to sukha? Thanks.
            >
            Dear friends
            Su = good, positive
            Kha = space, presence.
            the idiom of 'positive space' can be seen as three fold:

            amisa sukha - physical-emotional bliss, an ingredient of the first
            jhana, where body and bliss are, like a sponge 'fully saturated with
            water'.

            niramisa sukha - mental emotional happiness, of the third jhana,
            where equanimity which is 'inspection from a high point', gives the
            image of lotus flowers of various colors, fully immersed in water.

            sukha = satisfaction, finding fulfilment.
            hence 'kama sukalika' = satisfaction with the sphere of the senses.
            'sukha vipasana' = satisfaction with the thoughtful inquiry.
            (the dry aspect is also in relation to the duality, the mnaturity of
            the wood that can be burned
            'nibbana paramam sukham = cessation is the satisfaction of
            (attaining)the beyond'.

            The MahaArahat Venerable Sariputta explains that Nibbana is happiness
            exactly because it is devoid of feelings.

            Metta
            Jothiko
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