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Release of mind

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  • pgd2507
    Dear Mahinda, Nina, Piya and others, I have often come across the term release of mind in sutta translations. what exactly does it mean? what Pali words are
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 15, 2008
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      Dear Mahinda, Nina, Piya and others,

      I have often come across the term "release of mind" in sutta
      translations. what exactly does it mean? what Pali words are used to
      mean this term? how does the Buddha define / explain this term?

      My understanding (and I could be entirely wrong) has been that mind by
      its very nature is desire and discontent or in other words is
      synonymous with desire and discontent. Consequently, "release of mind"
      would mean entering from a state of mind to a state of no mind. Am I
      making sense...

      Kindly help / guide.

      with metta,
      PG
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Dear pg Dave, ... Release of mind, ceto vimutti. We find this term together with pa~n~naa vimutti. When described as anaasava, cankerless, they are two aspects
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 17, 2008
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        Dear pg Dave,
        Op 16-apr-2008, om 5:39 heeft pgd2507 het volgende geschreven:

        > I have often come across the term "release of mind" in sutta
        > translations. what exactly does it mean? what Pali words are used to
        > mean this term? how does the Buddha define / explain this term?
        >
        > My understanding (and I could be entirely wrong) has been that mind by
        > its very nature is desire and discontent or in other words is
        > synonymous with desire and discontent. Consequently, "release of mind"
        > would mean entering from a state of mind to a state of no mind. Am I
        > making sense...
        -------
        Release of mind, ceto vimutti. We find this term together with
        pa~n~naa vimutti.
        When described as anaasava, cankerless, they are two aspects of the
        arahat's deliverance. Quote from <The Jhaanas>, Ven. Henepola
        Gunaratana (Wheel no 351-353): <Liberation of mind signifies the
        release of mind from craving and its associated defilements,
        liberation by wisdom the release from ignorance>.
        In the highest sense ceto vimutti is the samaadhi, concentration,
        accompanying the magga-citta of the arahat and pa~n~naa vimutti is
        the wisdom accompanying the fruition-consciousness of the arahat.
        The term mind would suggest a lasting consciousness, but in fact
        there are only many different types of cittas arising one at a time,
        succeeding one another from birth to death. The arahat who has
        eradicated all defilements does not have to be reborn, and his cuti-
        citta is not succeeded by rebirth-consciousness. He is freed from the
        cycle.
        Now we are not freed, we are enslaved by ignorance and all other
        defilements. When we begin to know the truth about the mental
        phenomena and physical phenomena of our life, there is already a
        degree of release; we shall become free from wrong view. We cannot
        make cittas arise at will, they arise because of their own
        conditions, they have no owner, np possessor. Ignorance covers up the
        truth, but through pa~n~naa we can learn that it is not I who sees,
        but citta that sees, not I who hears, but citta that hears, not I who
        is attached, but citta accompanied by lobha. Developing understanding
        of whatever dhamma arises now is the development of the eightfold
        Path leading to complete freedom.
        Nina.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • P G Dave
        many thanks, nina. with metta PG _______________________________________ ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 21, 2008
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          many thanks, nina.

          with metta
          PG
          _______________________________________


          On 4/17/08, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear pg Dave,
          > Op 16-apr-2008, om 5:39 heeft pgd2507 het volgende geschreven:
          >
          > > I have often come across the term "release of mind" in sutta
          > > translations. what exactly does it mean? what Pali words are used to
          > > mean this term? how does the Buddha define / explain this term?
          > >
          > > My understanding (and I could be entirely wrong) has been that mind by
          > > its very nature is desire and discontent or in other words is
          > > synonymous with desire and discontent. Consequently, "release of mind"
          > > would mean entering from a state of mind to a state of no mind. Am I
          > > making sense...
          > -------
          > Release of mind, ceto vimutti. We find this term together with
          > pa~n~naa vimutti.
          > When described as anaasava, cankerless, they are two aspects of the
          > arahat's deliverance. Quote from <The Jhaanas>, Ven. Henepola
          > Gunaratana (Wheel no 351-353): <Liberation of mind signifies the
          > release of mind from craving and its associated defilements,
          > liberation by wisdom the release from ignorance>.
          > In the highest sense ceto vimutti is the samaadhi, concentration,
          > accompanying the magga-citta of the arahat and pa~n~naa vimutti is
          > the wisdom accompanying the fruition-consciousness of the arahat.
          > The term mind would suggest a lasting consciousness, but in fact
          > there are only many different types of cittas arising one at a time,
          > succeeding one another from birth to death. The arahat who has
          > eradicated all defilements does not have to be reborn, and his cuti-
          > citta is not succeeded by rebirth-consciousness. He is freed from the
          > cycle.
          > Now we are not freed, we are enslaved by ignorance and all other
          > defilements. When we begin to know the truth about the mental
          > phenomena and physical phenomena of our life, there is already a
          > degree of release; we shall become free from wrong view. We cannot
          > make cittas arise at will, they arise because of their own
          > conditions, they have no owner, np possessor. Ignorance covers up the
          > truth, but through pa~n~naa we can learn that it is not I who sees,
          > but citta that sees, not I who hears, but citta that hears, not I who
          > is attached, but citta accompanied by lobha. Developing understanding
          > of whatever dhamma arises now is the development of the eightfold
          > Path leading to complete freedom.
          > Nina.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • joseph
          ... to ... mind by ... mind ... I ... Hello friends The difference between Ceto vimutui and Panna vimuti is a difference in the practitioners temperamental
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 22, 2008
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            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "pgd2507" <pgd2507@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Mahinda, Nina, Piya and others,
            >
            > I have often come across the term "release of mind" in sutta
            > translations. what exactly does it mean? what Pali words are used
            to
            > mean this term? how does the Buddha define / explain this term?
            >
            > My understanding (and I could be entirely wrong) has been that
            mind by
            > its very nature is desire and discontent or in other words is
            > synonymous with desire and discontent. Consequently, "release of
            mind"
            > would mean entering from a state of mind to a state of no mind. Am
            I
            > making sense...
            >
            > Kindly help / guide.
            >
            > with metta,
            > PG
            >

            Hello friends
            The difference between Ceto vimutui and Panna vimuti is a difference
            in the practitioners temperamental qualities
            Ayatanaa, (see aggi sutta, sambojans samyuta) where the difference
            relates to the Sambojjangaa, which are the mind characteristics,
            samatha/vipassana are the necesary practice, practical approach.
            the differences are quite profound and it is the reason for much
            recent misunderstanding, due to teachers transmitting their own
            particular knowledge.
            the practice of the AnaPanaSati is suitablre for both ways, and in
            the first part of the AnaPanaSati Sutta, 'the lesson on attention to
            the breath process'
            there is a description of the different chief disciples as each
            teaching a different practice of Dhamma to a group, all leading to
            one goal'
            Before I wrote some texts on the matter (see ju-buddha yahoo group)
            and I still have to add..

            Ceto Vimutti is the knowledge of the phenomena of the mind' the
            control of extra sensual, super natural mental abilities, relatimg
            to 'mind over matter'
            this is the 'extra ordinary', the miracle, the success that fulfils
            desire.
            a while ago in the english Buddhist society journal, there was this
            story about Oygen Herrigel, the writer of 'Zen and the art of
            archery'. it seems that actually, in Japan, archery and zen were two
            different form of practice, but both were practiced by his teacher.
            one day, the story goes, that teacher preformed an extra ordinary
            feat by hitting, eyes blind folded, a bull's eye and hitting that
            arrow too, by a second one.
            Herrigel was naturally dumbfounded but the teacher was deeply
            disturbed.
            this was the extra ordinary, the special. in his zen practices he
            was looking for the simplicity of the 'ordinary mind' , not for the
            sucess and achievment.

            in the practic of Samatha, the practitioner attains a Jhana, next,
            he will analyse : is it the 'made up', a result of a process,
            Sankhata, a conditioned phenomena?
            or is it the unmade, Asankhata, the unconditioned, Nibbana?
            if he understand, since his mind does not tend to exertion into the
            advanced stages of Samatha, that it is still the made, and any
            further effort, too, may lead to advanced, but similarily 'made up'
            states, he may gain enlightenment.
            this is 'release by wisdom'.

            when this happens beyond the fourth Jhana, it is 'a release by both'
            ( there is an attainment of the states of calm that are beyond the
            senses'
            (Ayatana-Arupa Jhanaa),this is ceto vimuti panna vimuti.

            can there be a reference solely to 'Ceto Vimutti'?
            attainment only of the Ayatanaa or of miraculous powers without
            further understanding?
            this may be apart the Buddha's teachings, actually, as this seems to
            be the ideal, the goal of the teachings the Bodhisatta has received
            from his own former teachers.
            a teachings he had denounced as 'not leading to calm, to release, to
            cessatiom'.
            this is the only option open to halucinogenic based practices, by
            the way.

            the difference, and it is truly a fundemental one , an ice berg of
            meanning, is the simple 'release of heart' , the balanced wisdom
            of 'the teachings that are special to buddhas' (see Upali Sutta M.
            N. ). it is the eight fold path, the denial of both materialistic
            and idealistic conceptions in favour of the simple 'truth of the
            moment' and the 'right way' of dealing with any possible situation
            that is the unfolding of 'Sammaa'.
            to follow R.K. Norman translation of Nibbana' as 'play' , hence one
            is not following the 'rules' of the Asavaa, the worldly game.


            Metta
            Jothiko
          • joseph
            ... Hello in Song of mind Master Sheng-Yen acyually refers to Samadhi as one mind and to enlightenment as no mind . following in his terminology simple
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 23, 2008
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              > would mean entering from a state of mind to a state of no mind. Am I
              > making sense...

              Hello
              in 'Song of mind' Master Sheng-Yen acyually refers to Samadhi as
              'one mind' and to enlightenment as 'no mind'.
              following in his terminology 'simple mind' ios a priliminary state of
              clarity.
              Metta
              Jothiko
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