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Another question in the same Jaataka

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  • flrobert2000
    Dear friends, Raajaa sa.mviggahadayo hatthena saa.taka.m sa.n.thapento turitaturita.m nikkhamitvaa vegena gantvaa bhagavato purato .thatvaa aaha– ki.m
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 27, 2008
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      Dear friends,

      Raajaa sa.mviggahadayo hatthena saa.taka.m sa.n.thapento
      turitaturita.m nikkhamitvaa vegena gantvaa bhagavato purato .thatvaa
      aaha– "ki.m `ettakaana.m bhikkhuuna.m na sakka bhatta.m laddhun'ti
      sañña.m karitthaa"ti. " - Ibid.
      king / agitated heart/ [with] hand / clothe / adjusting / quickly /
      having gone out / speedily / having gone / [of] Buddha / in front of /
      having stood / said / ???who / [of???] so much / [of] monks / not /
      able / rice / to receive / thought

      The king, his heart agitated, adjusted his clothes with his hand, went
      out quickly, stood in front of the Buddha and said "Who thought of so
      many monks not able to get rice?"

      Is the last part of the translation correct:

      "Who thought of so many monks not able to get rice?"

      Thank you for your help,

      Florent
    • mahipaliha
      ... purato .thatvaa ... of / ... went ... so ... Translation of this sentence has gone wrong due to 2 mistakes. (1) ki.m has been taken as meaning who . Pali
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 28, 2008
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        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "flrobert2000" <flrobert2000@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear friends,
        >
        > Raajaa sa.mviggahadayo hatthena saa.taka.m sa.n.thapento
        > turitaturita.m nikkhamitvaa vegena gantvaa bhagavato
        purato .thatvaa
        > aaha– "ki.m `ettakaana.m bhikkhuuna.m na sakka bhatta.m laddhun'ti
        > sañña.m karitthaa"ti. " - Ibid.
        > king / agitated heart/ [with] hand / clothe / adjusting / quickly /
        > having gone out / speedily / having gone / [of] Buddha / in front
        of /
        > having stood / said / ???who / [of???] so much / [of] monks / not /
        > able / rice / to receive / thought
        >
        > The king, his heart agitated, adjusted his clothes with his hand,
        went
        > out quickly, stood in front of the Buddha and said "Who thought of
        so
        > many monks not able to get rice?"
        >
        > Is the last part of the translation correct:
        >
        > "Who thought of so many monks not able to get rice?"
        >
        Translation of this sentence has gone wrong due to 2 mistakes. (1)
        ki.m has been taken as meaning 'who'. Pali for 'who' is either ko
        (if masculine) or kaa (if fem.) ki.m is neuter and means 'what'
        or 'why'. The latter is suitable in this contect. (2)karittha has
        been misunderstood. It is a 2nd person plural aorist form, not a 3rd
        p. sg. So the sentence should mean Why have you thought it (would
        be) impossible for so many monks to obtain meals (at the palace,
        perhaps?). I don't know why the plural verb is used. Perhaps it is
        an honorific usage, or it may mean "Why do you all think..." The
        long vowel in karitthaa is a sandhi alteration(karittha +iti =
        karitthaati).

        Mahipaliha
      • flrobert2000
        Dear Venerable Mahipaliha, Thank you very much again for your clear explanation. It helps me a lot. Kind regards, Florent Robert
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 28, 2008
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          Dear Venerable Mahipaliha,

          Thank you very much again for your clear explanation. It helps me a lot.

          Kind regards,

          Florent Robert

          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "mahipaliha" <mahipal6@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "flrobert2000" <flrobert2000@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Dear friends,
          > >
          > > Raajaa sa.mviggahadayo hatthena saa.taka.m sa.n.thapento
          > > turitaturita.m nikkhamitvaa vegena gantvaa bhagavato
          > purato .thatvaa
          > > aaha– "ki.m `ettakaana.m bhikkhuuna.m na sakka bhatta.m laddhun'ti
          > > sañña.m karitthaa"ti. " - Ibid.
          > > king / agitated heart/ [with] hand / clothe / adjusting / quickly /
          > > having gone out / speedily / having gone / [of] Buddha / in front
          > of /
          > > having stood / said / ???who / [of???] so much / [of] monks / not /
          > > able / rice / to receive / thought
          > >
          > > The king, his heart agitated, adjusted his clothes with his hand,
          > went
          > > out quickly, stood in front of the Buddha and said "Who thought of
          > so
          > > many monks not able to get rice?"
          > >
          > > Is the last part of the translation correct:
          > >
          > > "Who thought of so many monks not able to get rice?"
          > >
          > Translation of this sentence has gone wrong due to 2 mistakes. (1)
          > ki.m has been taken as meaning 'who'. Pali for 'who' is either ko
          > (if masculine) or kaa (if fem.) ki.m is neuter and means 'what'
          > or 'why'. The latter is suitable in this contect. (2)karittha has
          > been misunderstood. It is a 2nd person plural aorist form, not a 3rd
          > p. sg. So the sentence should mean Why have you thought it (would
          > be) impossible for so many monks to obtain meals (at the palace,
          > perhaps?). I don't know why the plural verb is used. Perhaps it is
          > an honorific usage, or it may mean "Why do you all think..." The
          > long vowel in karitthaa is a sandhi alteration(karittha +iti =
          > karitthaati).
          >
          > Mahipaliha
          >
        • mahipaliha
          ... Dear Friend, You are the second person in this group to call me Ven. Mahipaliha. It amused me at first, but it is becoming a bit embarassing, because I am
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 29, 2008
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            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "flrobert2000" <flrobert2000@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Venerable Mahipaliha etc.

            Dear Friend,
            You are the second person in this group to call me Ven. Mahipaliha. It
            amused me at first, but it is becoming a bit embarassing, because I am
            not a monk and also I do not believe in veneration. Moreover
            mahipaliha is only my Yahoo username, being an abbreviation of my real-
            life name. It's OK calling me mahipaliha,but let's drop the venerable
            part. Thanks and best wishes.

            mahipaliha
          • Nina van Gorkom
            Dear Mahipaliha, I looked at the Pali name, and also the style of your explanation. A person with great knowledge who can also explain it so well. A real
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 1, 2008
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              Dear Mahipaliha,
              I looked at the Pali name, and also the style of your explanation. A
              person with great knowledge who can also explain it so well. A real
              teacher. Are you a Pali teacher?
              Nina.
              Op 29-feb-2008, om 14:11 heeft mahipaliha het volgende geschreven:

              > You are the second person in this group to call me Ven. Mahipaliha.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • mahipaliha
              ... A ... Dear Nina, I taught Sanskrit in a Sri Lankan university and courses in Hinduism and Buddhism in a US university. Several non-SL students sought my
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 1, 2008
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                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Mahipaliha,
                > I looked at the Pali name, and also the style of your explanation.
                A
                > person with great knowledge who can also explain it so well. A real
                > teacher. Are you a Pali teacher?

                Dear Nina,
                I taught Sanskrit in a Sri Lankan university and courses in Hinduism
                and Buddhism in a US university. Several non-SL students sought my
                assistance in learning Pali, which I willingly gave. Now, however,
                living in retirement, I see the self-assertive aspect of the acdemic
                enterprise more clearly than I did before. It is always better to back
                out of it when that element emerges.
                Kind regards.
                Mahipaliha
              • Nina van Gorkom
                Dear Mahipaliha, you gave a very wise answer. I hope you are willing to assist us on this list also in the future and I am looking forward to your
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 2, 2008
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                  Dear Mahipaliha,
                  you gave a very wise answer. I hope you are willing to assist us on
                  this list also in the future and I am looking forward to your
                  contributions, thanks.
                  Nina.
                  Op 2-mrt-2008, om 0:52 heeft mahipaliha het volgende geschreven:

                  > I taught Sanskrit in a Sri Lankan university and courses in Hinduism
                  > and Buddhism in a US university. Several non-SL students sought my
                  > assistance in learning Pali, which I willingly gave. Now, however,
                  > living in retirement, I see the self-assertive aspect of the acdemic
                  > enterprise more clearly than I did before. It is always better to back
                  > out of it when that element emerges.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • flrobert2000
                  Dear Mahipaliha, Sorry for calling you Venerable and for embarrassing you; I thought you were a monk. I actually live in Myanmar and all my teachers are monks,
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 2, 2008
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                    Dear Mahipaliha,

                    Sorry for calling you Venerable and for embarrassing you; I thought
                    you were a monk. I actually live in Myanmar and all my teachers are
                    monks, and it is a habit here to address monks in this way. I don't
                    take it as veneration but more like a form of politeness (like the use
                    of "vous" in French). In Burmese they use terms like Ashin Paya, Saya,
                    Sayama, Saya Gyi, Daw, Ko...and I always get confused. It is the same
                    the other way. People just can't call me directly by my normal name
                    but add U, Sir, Mister or Teacher which I also find funny. Calling you
                    Saya (Teacher) or even Saya Gyi (Great Teacher) would have been more
                    appropriate!

                    Thank you very much again for your clear explanations which I found
                    very helpful.

                    U Robert


                    --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "mahipaliha" <mahipal6@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "flrobert2000" <flrobert2000@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Dear Venerable Mahipaliha etc.
                    >
                    > Dear Friend,
                    > You are the second person in this group to call me Ven. Mahipaliha. It
                    > amused me at first, but it is becoming a bit embarassing, because I am
                    > not a monk and also I do not believe in veneration. Moreover
                    > mahipaliha is only my Yahoo username, being an abbreviation of my real-
                    > life name. It's OK calling me mahipaliha,but let's drop the venerable
                    > part. Thanks and best wishes.
                    >
                    > mahipaliha
                    >
                  • Ong Yong Peng
                    Dear Mahipaliha, I join Nina in looking forward to your contributions. metta, Yong Peng. ... I hope you are willing to assist us on this list also in the
                    Message 9 of 9 , Mar 3, 2008
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                      Dear Mahipaliha,

                      I join Nina in looking forward to your contributions.

                      metta,
                      Yong Peng.


                      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

                      I hope you are willing to assist us on this list also in the future
                      and I am looking forward to your contributions, thanks.
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