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Re: [Pali] Re: Tipitaka Editions, variants, phonology, etc.

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  • Piya Tan
    Yes, right in every way: your happiness is very important to me. If only there are more wise people, the world would be such a happier place. Piya Tan ... --
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 4, 2008
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      Yes, right in every way: your happiness is very important to me.

      If only there are more wise people, the world would be such a happier place.

      Piya Tan


      On Feb 4, 2008 4:18 PM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:

      > No no Piya.
      > No need to apologize. I am not offended.
      > Even if I was, I see no reality that persuades me to take it
      > seriously, nor personnally.
      > Mistake perhaps.
      >
      > I was born with a brain capable of many things but the heart capable
      > of many more, I wish to do some things and not others.
      >
      > May we work together to build this friendship. :)
      >
      > You are forgiven certainly.
      >
      >
      > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
      > <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Gnosis.panya,
      > >
      > > In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my errors.
      > >
      > > Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na.
      > >
      > > Piya Tan
      > >
      > >
      > > On Feb 4, 2008 8:46 AM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good help.
      > > >
      > > > Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps typos
      > and
      > > > not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing of two
      > > > vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned little
      > > > correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is difficult
      > > > without a correct version.
      > > >
      > > > Hi there Piya. How are you?
      > > > I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from anyone.
      > > > I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is certain not
      > of
      > > > either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether the
      > > > internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real life
      > where
      > > > being in the company of people doing naughty things will have a
      > > > negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones name
      > people do
      > > > many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing that.
      > > >
      > > > By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am all wise
      > and
      > > > all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this world
      > > > needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength, virtue and
      > > > charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses them of
      > being
      > > > secretive by the use of them.
      > > >
      > > > I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?
      > > >
      > > > I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing else I
      > can
      > > > give.
      > > > May you live a live of love and may you find what you are looking
      > for.
      > > >
      > > > On that note I shall go shopping for food.
      > > >
      > > > May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.
      > > >
      > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dmytro O.
      >
      > > > Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@>
      > > >
      > > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi Gnosis,
      > > > >
      > > > > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are hard to
      > work
      > > > out.
      > > > > > Such as:
      > > > > > is the j a 'z' sound?
      > > > >
      > > > > No.
      > > > >
      > > > > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it is not
      > > > proper
      > > > > > pali.
      > > > >
      > > > > For example?
      > > > >
      > > > > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant over
      > another?
      > > > >
      > > > > Perhaps.
      > > > >
      > > > > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for download?
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Thai edition
      > > > >
      > > > > Not available for download
      > > > > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
      > > > >
      > > > > > Sixth Council edition
      > > > >
      > > > > Not available for download
      > > > > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
      > > > >
      > > > > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
      > > > >
      > > > > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
      > > > >
      > > > > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
      > > > >
      > > > > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/Buddhist-
      > Texts/
      > > > BT-index.htm
      > > > >
      > > > > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized version of
      > > > the one
      > > > > > at tipitaka.org
      > > > >
      > > > > I would recommend
      > > > > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
      > > > >
      > > > > See also:
      > > > > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
      > > > > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
      > > > >
      > > > > Best wishes,
      > > > > Dmytro
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > The Minding Centre
      > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
      > > Singapore 650644
      > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >
      >



      --
      The Minding Centre
      Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
      Singapore 650644
      Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • gnosis.panya
      Opinions may differ and life is all the richer for it but true compassion is not an opinion (in my opinion), just a flower waiting to be born in our hearts.
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 4, 2008
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        Opinions may differ and life is all the richer for it but true
        compassion is not an opinion (in my opinion), just a flower waiting
        to be born in our hearts.

        Now Piya, please tell me about your experiences with pali and the
        tipitaka and any hints and some less than obvious things you have
        noticed.

        How close can learning through the books come to reading th tipitaka?

        Also, do you know of any metre studies that i can use to read outloud
        the text so I can use my ear to train myself in the use of the
        language? (I use audio learning very well.)

        Thanks very much.

        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Piya Tan" <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes, right in every way: your happiness is very important to me.
        >
        > If only there are more wise people, the world would be such a
        happier place.
        >
        > Piya Tan
        >
        >
        > On Feb 4, 2008 4:18 PM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
        >
        > > No no Piya.
        > > No need to apologize. I am not offended.
        > > Even if I was, I see no reality that persuades me to take it
        > > seriously, nor personnally.
        > > Mistake perhaps.
        > >
        > > I was born with a brain capable of many things but the heart
        capable
        > > of many more, I wish to do some things and not others.
        > >
        > > May we work together to build this friendship. :)
        > >
        > > You are forgiven certainly.
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
        > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Dear Gnosis.panya,
        > > >
        > > > In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my
        errors.
        > > >
        > > > Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na.
        > > >
        > > > Piya Tan
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On Feb 4, 2008 8:46 AM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good
        help.
        > > > >
        > > > > Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps
        typos
        > > and
        > > > > not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing of
        two
        > > > > vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned little
        > > > > correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is difficult
        > > > > without a correct version.
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi there Piya. How are you?
        > > > > I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from anyone.
        > > > > I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is certain
        not
        > > of
        > > > > either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether the
        > > > > internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real life
        > > where
        > > > > being in the company of people doing naughty things will have
        a
        > > > > negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones name
        > > people do
        > > > > many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing that.
        > > > >
        > > > > By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am all
        wise
        > > and
        > > > > all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this
        world
        > > > > needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength, virtue
        and
        > > > > charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses them of
        > > being
        > > > > secretive by the use of them.
        > > > >
        > > > > I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?
        > > > >
        > > > > I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing else
        I
        > > can
        > > > > give.
        > > > > May you live a live of love and may you find what you are
        looking
        > > for.
        > > > >
        > > > > On that note I shall go shopping for food.
        > > > >
        > > > > May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com
        <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dmytro O.
        > >
        > > > > Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@>
        > > > >
        > > > > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Hi Gnosis,
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are hard
        to
        > > work
        > > > > out.
        > > > > > > Such as:
        > > > > > > is the j a 'z' sound?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > No.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it is not
        > > > > proper
        > > > > > > pali.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > For example?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant over
        > > another?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Perhaps.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for
        download?
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Thai edition
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Not available for download
        > > > > > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > Sixth Council edition
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Not available for download
        > > > > > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
        > > > > >
        > > > > > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/Buddhist-
        > > Texts/
        > > > > BT-index.htm
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized
        version of
        > > > > the one
        > > > > > > at tipitaka.org
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I would recommend
        > > > > > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
        > > > > >
        > > > > > See also:
        > > > > > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
        > > > > > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Best wishes,
        > > > > > Dmytro
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --
        > > > The Minding Centre
        > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
        > > > Singapore 650644
        > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > The Minding Centre
        > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
        > Singapore 650644
        > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • P G Dave
        Dear gnosis.panya, it would be lovely if you described the process / steps you follow for audio learning. many of us and I for sure would bnefit from applying
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 5, 2008
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          Dear gnosis.panya,

          it would be lovely if you described the process / steps you follow for audio
          learning. many of us and I for sure would bnefit from applying your method.

          metta,
          ______________________________________________


          On 2/5/08, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
          >
          > Opinions may differ and life is all the richer for it but true
          > compassion is not an opinion (in my opinion), just a flower waiting
          > to be born in our hearts.
          >
          > Now Piya, please tell me about your experiences with pali and the
          > tipitaka and any hints and some less than obvious things you have
          > noticed.
          >
          > How close can learning through the books come to reading th tipitaka?
          >
          > Also, do you know of any metre studies that i can use to read outloud
          > the text so I can use my ear to train myself in the use of the
          > language? (I use audio learning very well.)
          >
          > Thanks very much.
          >
          > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
          > <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Yes, right in every way: your happiness is very important to me.
          > >
          > > If only there are more wise people, the world would be such a
          > happier place.
          > >
          > > Piya Tan
          > >
          > >
          > > On Feb 4, 2008 4:18 PM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > No no Piya.
          > > > No need to apologize. I am not offended.
          > > > Even if I was, I see no reality that persuades me to take it
          > > > seriously, nor personnally.
          > > > Mistake perhaps.
          > > >
          > > > I was born with a brain capable of many things but the heart
          > capable
          > > > of many more, I wish to do some things and not others.
          > > >
          > > > May we work together to build this friendship. :)
          > > >
          > > > You are forgiven certainly.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
          > > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Dear Gnosis.panya,
          > > > >
          > > > > In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my
          > errors.
          > > > >
          > > > > Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na.
          > > > >
          > > > > Piya Tan
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > On Feb 4, 2008 8:46 AM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > > Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good
          > help.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps
          > typos
          > > > and
          > > > > > not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing of
          > two
          > > > > > vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned little
          > > > > > correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is difficult
          > > > > > without a correct version.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Hi there Piya. How are you?
          > > > > > I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from anyone.
          > > > > > I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is certain
          > not
          > > > of
          > > > > > either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether the
          > > > > > internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real life
          > > > where
          > > > > > being in the company of people doing naughty things will have
          > a
          > > > > > negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones name
          > > > people do
          > > > > > many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing that.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am all
          > wise
          > > > and
          > > > > > all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this
          > world
          > > > > > needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength, virtue
          > and
          > > > > > charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses them of
          > > > being
          > > > > > secretive by the use of them.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing else
          > I
          > > > can
          > > > > > give.
          > > > > > May you live a live of love and may you find what you are
          > looking
          > > > for.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > On that note I shall go shopping for food.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
          > <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dmytro O.
          > > >
          > > > > > Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@>
          > > > > >
          > > > > > wrote:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Hi Gnosis,
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are hard
          > to
          > > > work
          > > > > > out.
          > > > > > > > Such as:
          > > > > > > > is the j a 'z' sound?
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > No.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it is not
          > > > > > proper
          > > > > > > > pali.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > For example?
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant over
          > > > another?
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Perhaps.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for
          > download?
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Thai edition
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Not available for download
          > > > > > > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Sixth Council edition
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Not available for download
          > > > > > > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/Buddhist-
          > > > Texts/
          > > > > > BT-index.htm
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized
          > version of
          > > > > > the one
          > > > > > > > at tipitaka.org
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > I would recommend
          > > > > > > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > See also:
          > > > > > > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
          > > > > > > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Best wishes,
          > > > > > > Dmytro
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --
          > > > > The Minding Centre
          > > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
          > > > > Singapore 650644
          > > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > The Minding Centre
          > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
          > > Singapore 650644
          > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • gnosis.panya
          I am not totally sure or all the hows of my learning process. Always been a musical person and hypersensitive to sound. Learning fast has always come natural
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 6, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            I am not totally sure or all the hows of my learning process.
            Always been a musical person and hypersensitive to sound.
            Learning fast has always come natural to me.

            I can give some advice to one who would like to memorize texts or
            learn language.
            Perhaps I will be rehashing some advice given online but I will try
            to explain what happens.

            I do not speak any foreign languages fluently due to life
            circumstances so I am no "guru". I have yet to study any intensively.

            For example: in Lithuanian I only know the name of the language and
            how to say excuse me. No grammatical awareness.
            Hebrew: A few dozen sentences. Slight grammatical knowledge.
            German. Many words. Quite a few sentence structures are understood.
            About 20 or 30 more in between those. Some I can read some I can only
            pronounce.

            Every few weeks I simply listen to language audio.
            If I cannot find any there is a setback but not a huge one if the
            language is somewhat phonetic. Pali is good in this circumstance.

            In that case I read out many words slowly and think of all the indian
            accents of people I know.There will have been changes over the years
            but it does help to get it into my head.After a while i felt the S-O-
            V structure getting into my head.
            I knew where to put things.

            I am interested in memory training but I find myself moving away from
            mnemonics and onto rote memory training.I memorized For Whom The Bell
            Tolls - John Donne in about 3 readings outloud. (89 words, 14
            lines)Repetition is key, review is the foundation.

            For languages place new words in old structures.

            Example:
            I am cooking.
            understand that sentence.
            while cooking say it outloud or internally.

            then when writing replace that one word.

            In some languages that use dual verbs that can be difficult to start
            with but pali i think does not have that problem.

            I am not totally sure what I do that works so well but I just hear,
            repeat, imagine with many senses and I know it.

            Not sure if any of that is the slightest perhaps we can chat online
            some more about it and I can get feedback from you to help give me
            the motivations needed to look deeper at the proccess.

            Audio is only my dominant learning style but I build the others
            constantly aswell. That is making hearing stronger.

            Have a good day there P G Dave.

            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "P G Dave" <pgd2507@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear gnosis.panya,
            >
            > it would be lovely if you described the process / steps you follow
            for audio
            > learning. many of us and I for sure would bnefit from applying your
            method.
            >
            > metta,
            > ______________________________________________
            >
            >
            > On 2/5/08, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Opinions may differ and life is all the richer for it but true
            > > compassion is not an opinion (in my opinion), just a flower
            waiting
            > > to be born in our hearts.
            > >
            > > Now Piya, please tell me about your experiences with pali and the
            > > tipitaka and any hints and some less than obvious things you have
            > > noticed.
            > >
            > > How close can learning through the books come to reading th
            tipitaka?
            > >
            > > Also, do you know of any metre studies that i can use to read
            outloud
            > > the text so I can use my ear to train myself in the use of the
            > > language? (I use audio learning very well.)
            > >
            > > Thanks very much.
            > >
            > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
            > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Yes, right in every way: your happiness is very important to me.
            > > >
            > > > If only there are more wise people, the world would be such a
            > > happier place.
            > > >
            > > > Piya Tan
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On Feb 4, 2008 4:18 PM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > No no Piya.
            > > > > No need to apologize. I am not offended.
            > > > > Even if I was, I see no reality that persuades me to take it
            > > > > seriously, nor personnally.
            > > > > Mistake perhaps.
            > > > >
            > > > > I was born with a brain capable of many things but the heart
            > > capable
            > > > > of many more, I wish to do some things and not others.
            > > > >
            > > > > May we work together to build this friendship. :)
            > > > >
            > > > > You are forgiven certainly.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com
            <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
            > > > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Dear Gnosis.panya,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my
            > > errors.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Piya Tan
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > On Feb 4, 2008 8:46 AM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > > Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good
            > > help.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps
            > > typos
            > > > > and
            > > > > > > not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing
            of
            > > two
            > > > > > > vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned
            little
            > > > > > > correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is
            difficult
            > > > > > > without a correct version.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Hi there Piya. How are you?
            > > > > > > I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from
            anyone.
            > > > > > > I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is
            certain
            > > not
            > > > > of
            > > > > > > either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether
            the
            > > > > > > internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real
            life
            > > > > where
            > > > > > > being in the company of people doing naughty things will
            have
            > > a
            > > > > > > negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones
            name
            > > > > people do
            > > > > > > many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing
            that.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am
            all
            > > wise
            > > > > and
            > > > > > > all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this
            > > world
            > > > > > > needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength,
            virtue
            > > and
            > > > > > > charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses
            them of
            > > > > being
            > > > > > > secretive by the use of them.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing
            else
            > > I
            > > > > can
            > > > > > > give.
            > > > > > > May you live a live of love and may you find what you are
            > > looking
            > > > > for.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > On that note I shall go shopping for food.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
            > > <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dmytro O.
            > > > >
            > > > > > > Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@>
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > wrote:
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Hi Gnosis,
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are
            hard
            > > to
            > > > > work
            > > > > > > out.
            > > > > > > > > Such as:
            > > > > > > > > is the j a 'z' sound?
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > No.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it
            is not
            > > > > > > proper
            > > > > > > > > pali.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > For example?
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant
            over
            > > > > another?
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Perhaps.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for
            > > download?
            > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > Thai edition
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Not available for download
            > > > > > > > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > Sixth Council edition
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Not available for download
            > > > > > > > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/
            Buddhist-
            > > > > Texts/
            > > > > > > BT-index.htm
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized
            > > version of
            > > > > > > the one
            > > > > > > > > at tipitaka.org
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > I would recommend
            > > > > > > > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > See also:
            > > > > > > > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
            > > > > > > > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Best wishes,
            > > > > > > > Dmytro
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --
            > > > > > The Minding Centre
            > > > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
            > > > > > Singapore 650644
            > > > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --
            > > > The Minding Centre
            > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
            > > > Singapore 650644
            > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • P G Dave
            gnosis.panya & other group members, is anyone aware of any audio lessons for learning pali in a natural style -- perhaps somewhat akin to the way a child
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 6, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              gnosis.panya & other group members,

              is anyone aware of any audio lessons for learning pali in a natural style --
              perhaps somewhat akin to the way a child learns a language.
              ________________________________________________________

              On 2/7/08, P G Dave <pgd2507@...> wrote:
              >
              > that was sweet.
              > and so clear.
              > do u also sometimes record yourself while reading aloud and listen to the
              > play back?
              >
              > thanks for the effort, brother.
              >
              > metta
              > ___________________________
              >
              >
              > On 2/6/08, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I am not totally sure or all the hows of my learning process.
              > > Always been a musical person and hypersensitive to sound.
              > > Learning fast has always come natural to me.
              > >
              > > I can give some advice to one who would like to memorize texts or
              > > learn language.
              > > Perhaps I will be rehashing some advice given online but I will try
              > > to explain what happens.
              > >
              > > I do not speak any foreign languages fluently due to life
              > > circumstances so I am no "guru". I have yet to study any intensively.
              > >
              > > For example: in Lithuanian I only know the name of the language and
              > > how to say excuse me. No grammatical awareness.
              > > Hebrew: A few dozen sentences. Slight grammatical knowledge.
              > > German. Many words. Quite a few sentence structures are understood.
              > > About 20 or 30 more in between those. Some I can read some I can only
              > > pronounce.
              > >
              > > Every few weeks I simply listen to language audio.
              > > If I cannot find any there is a setback but not a huge one if the
              > > language is somewhat phonetic. Pali is good in this circumstance.
              > >
              > > In that case I read out many words slowly and think of all the indian
              > > accents of people I know.There will have been changes over the years
              > > but it does help to get it into my head.After a while i felt the S-O-
              > > V structure getting into my head.
              > > I knew where to put things.
              > >
              > > I am interested in memory training but I find myself moving away from
              > > mnemonics and onto rote memory training.I memorized For Whom The Bell
              > > Tolls - John Donne in about 3 readings outloud. (89 words, 14
              > > lines)Repetition is key, review is the foundation.
              > >
              > > For languages place new words in old structures.
              > >
              > > Example:
              > > I am cooking.
              > > understand that sentence.
              > > while cooking say it outloud or internally.
              > >
              > > then when writing replace that one word.
              > >
              > > In some languages that use dual verbs that can be difficult to start
              > > with but pali i think does not have that problem.
              > >
              > > I am not totally sure what I do that works so well but I just hear,
              > > repeat, imagine with many senses and I know it.
              > >
              > > Not sure if any of that is the slightest perhaps we can chat online
              > > some more about it and I can get feedback from you to help give me
              > > the motivations needed to look deeper at the proccess.
              > >
              > > Audio is only my dominant learning style but I build the others
              > > constantly aswell. That is making hearing stronger.
              > >
              > > Have a good day there P G Dave.
              > >
              > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "P G Dave"
              > > <pgd2507@...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Dear gnosis.panya,
              > > >
              > > > it would be lovely if you described the process / steps you follow
              > > for audio
              > > > learning. many of us and I for sure would bnefit from applying your
              > > method.
              > > >
              > > > metta,
              > > > ______________________________________________
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > On 2/5/08, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Opinions may differ and life is all the richer for it but true
              > > > > compassion is not an opinion (in my opinion), just a flower
              > > waiting
              > > > > to be born in our hearts.
              > > > >
              > > > > Now Piya, please tell me about your experiences with pali and the
              > > > > tipitaka and any hints and some less than obvious things you have
              > > > > noticed.
              > > > >
              > > > > How close can learning through the books come to reading th
              > > tipitaka?
              > > > >
              > > > > Also, do you know of any metre studies that i can use to read
              > > outloud
              > > > > the text so I can use my ear to train myself in the use of the
              > > > > language? (I use audio learning very well.)
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks very much.
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
              > > > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Yes, right in every way: your happiness is very important to me.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > If only there are more wise people, the world would be such a
              > > > > happier place.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Piya Tan
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > On Feb 4, 2008 4:18 PM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > > No no Piya.
              > > > > > > No need to apologize. I am not offended.
              > > > > > > Even if I was, I see no reality that persuades me to take it
              > > > > > > seriously, nor personnally.
              > > > > > > Mistake perhaps.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > I was born with a brain capable of many things but the heart
              > > > > capable
              > > > > > > of many more, I wish to do some things and not others.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > May we work together to build this friendship. :)
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > You are forgiven certainly.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
              > > > > > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Dear Gnosis.panya,
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my
              > > > > errors.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Piya Tan
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > On Feb 4, 2008 8:46 AM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@> wrote:
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good
              > > > > help.
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps
              > > > > typos
              > > > > > > and
              > > > > > > > > not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing
              > > of
              > > > > two
              > > > > > > > > vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned
              > > little
              > > > > > > > > correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is
              > > difficult
              > > > > > > > > without a correct version.
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > Hi there Piya. How are you?
              > > > > > > > > I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from
              > > anyone.
              > > > > > > > > I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is
              > > certain
              > > > > not
              > > > > > > of
              > > > > > > > > either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether
              > > the
              > > > > > > > > internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real
              > > life
              > > > > > > where
              > > > > > > > > being in the company of people doing naughty things will
              > > have
              > > > > a
              > > > > > > > > negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones
              > > name
              > > > > > > people do
              > > > > > > > > many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing
              > > that.
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am
              > > all
              > > > > wise
              > > > > > > and
              > > > > > > > > all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this
              > > > > world
              > > > > > > > > needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength,
              > > virtue
              > > > > and
              > > > > > > > > charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses
              > > them of
              > > > > > > being
              > > > > > > > > secretive by the use of them.
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing
              > > else
              > > > > I
              > > > > > > can
              > > > > > > > > give.
              > > > > > > > > May you live a live of love and may you find what you are
              > > > > looking
              > > > > > > for.
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > On that note I shall go shopping for food.
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > > > <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dmytro O.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@>
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > wrote:
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > Hi Gnosis,
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are
              > > hard
              > > > > to
              > > > > > > work
              > > > > > > > > out.
              > > > > > > > > > > Such as:
              > > > > > > > > > > is the j a 'z' sound?
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > No.
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it
              > > is not
              > > > > > > > > proper
              > > > > > > > > > > pali.
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > For example?
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant
              > > over
              > > > > > > another?
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > Perhaps.
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for
              > > > > download?
              > > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > > Thai edition
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > Not available for download
              > > > > > > > > > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > > Sixth Council edition
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > Not available for download
              > > > > > > > > > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/
              > > Buddhist-
              > > > > > > Texts/
              > > > > > > > > BT-index.htm
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized
              > > > > version of
              > > > > > > > > the one
              > > > > > > > > > > at tipitaka.org
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > I would recommend
              > > > > > > > > > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > See also:
              > > > > > > > > > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
              > > > > > > > > > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > > Best wishes,
              > > > > > > > > > Dmytro
              > > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > --
              > > > > > > > The Minding Centre
              > > > > > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
              > > > > > > > Singapore 650644
              > > > > > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --
              > > > > > The Minding Centre
              > > > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
              > > > > > Singapore 650644
              > > > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko
              Hi Gnosis, ... You may find useful Pali chanting: http://www.dhamma.ru/sadhu/modules/mylinks/viewcat.php?cid=150 Best wishes, Dmytro
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 6, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Gnosis,

                > Also, do you know of any metre studies that i can use to read outloud
                > the text so I can use my ear to train myself in the use of the
                > language? (I use audio learning very well.)

                You may find useful Pali chanting:

                http://www.dhamma.ru/sadhu/modules/mylinks/viewcat.php?cid=150

                Best wishes, Dmytro
              • gnosis.panya
                These resources and very well put together. Thankyou Dmytro. ... outloud
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 7, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  These resources and very well put together.
                  Thankyou Dmytro.

                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Gnosis,
                  >
                  > > Also, do you know of any metre studies that i can use to read
                  outloud
                  > > the text so I can use my ear to train myself in the use of the
                  > > language? (I use audio learning very well.)
                  >
                  > You may find useful Pali chanting:
                  >
                  > http://www.dhamma.ru/sadhu/modules/mylinks/viewcat.php?cid=150
                  >
                  > Best wishes, Dmytro
                  >
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