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the Pali Bible

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  • gdbedell
    Gunnar and Piya, Thanks for your responses to my query about the Pali Bible. I had not realized that there was one until I read Gunnar s note. I now assume
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 4, 2008
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      Gunnar and Piya,

      Thanks for your responses to my query about the Pali Bible. I had not realized that there
      was one until I read Gunnar's note. I now assume that the reference I found is it. Anyone
      who wishes to see a page should look at the following site:

      www.worldscriptures.org/pages/pali.html

      My interest in the Pali Bible has no religious motivation whatever, but is purely linguistic,
      though it is related to my use of Bible translations for studying other languages, some of
      which have no easily available literature other than the Bible. As Gunnar suggests, some
      translations are acceptable and useful for linguistic purposes, and some are not. There is
      no way to know without looking at the particular translation. Christians quite justifiably
      boast of the number of languages into which the Bible has been translated, though I think
      this has more to do with several centuries of Western cultural and economic hegemony
      than with any truth or efficacy of Christian ideas.

      I disagree with Piya that a language is necessarily influenced by what is said or written in
      it. Languages are adaptable to whatever their speakers or writers (not limited to native
      speakers or writers) want to use them to say. It might be difficult to show this in the case
      of Pali since, as Gunnar notes, it is overwhelmingly used to convey Buddhist ideas, either
      directly or indirectly. That is one reason why one might be interested in the Pali Bible.
      Anyhow it might not be completely fair to blame the messenger if you are unhappy with
      the message (or conversely to esteem the messenger if you like the message). I also
      doubt that Pali was created to pass on the Dharma. It was (when it was a living language
      in North India) flexible like any other. Historical vicissitudes have resulted in its present
      condition.

      Since Piya has actually read this Bible, I would appreciate it if he could tell us more. Did
      you read it in Burmese script? Did you notice any howlers of the sort suggested by
      Gunnar? And do you know how to obtain a copy? This last question is addressed to
      everyone who reads this list.

      George B

      Decades back, as a monk, I remember reading the Pali Bible, and feeling deeply 
joyful at
      the Pali, but not what is thrusted upon it. It's like pasting a copy of Hieronymus
 Bosch onto
      a beautiful Chinese nature line-painting, or blowing a trumpet in a
 sensitve rendition of
      sitar music!

      

In a sense, we can say that a language is heavily influenced by the message it 
habitually
      carries. Pali, being a language specially put together to pass on the
 Dharma, is thoroughly
      coloured by it.



      Similarly English is often deeply coloured by Christianity, but since English is a 
living
      language, it is constantly evolving. Pali has attained nirvana as it were, so 
it is unlike to
      undergo much change, if any! (Anyone still thinking of conversing in 
Pali :) But, no, we still
      could.



      The upadhi-struck minds of some Christians never cease to amaze me. They are
 as
      appropriative as ever. In Singapore, it is not uncommon to see permanent 
banners outside
      churches, shouting: "Jesus is Lord" and there is a "City Harvest
 Church" promising
      prosperity to believers. So we are sheep to the Shepherd,
 fishes for the Fisher of men.



      The Buddha: "let go, and you will be free!"



      With metta and mudita,



      Piya Tan



      On Feb 2, 2008 10:13 PM, Gunnar Gällmo <gunnargallmo@ yahoo.se
      > wrote:


      >
      > --- George Bedell <gdbedell@yahoo. com <gdbedell%40yahoo. com
      > skrev:

      

>
      > > Gunnar,

      > >

      > > In your Paliforum post of 1/27, you mentioned 'the
      
> > Pali Bible'. After some investigation online, I

      > > found reference to a New Testament in Burmese script
      
> > attributed to Tolfrey and de Thomas and published in

      > > Colombo in 1835. Is this the one you were referring

      > > to? Whether it is or not, do you have any idea how

      > > to obtain a copy? I would appreciate any

      > > information.
      
>

      > Actually, I don't know any details; I have heard

      > several times that either the Bible, or perhaps only

      > the New Testament, have been translated into Pali to

      > convert bhikkhus. I have also heard that this

      > translation have given some knowledgeable bhikkhus a

      > great joy, but of a quite different kind than the one

      > intended.
      
>
      
> I have heard similar stories about other Bible

      > translations (such a choosing the wrong synonym for
> "love"...)

      >
      
> Some Christians tend to boast about how many languages

      > the Bible has been translated into. I always wished to

      > know how many of these translations are of an
      
> acceptable quality - but I suppose there's no-one who
      
> could check that.
      
>

      > Gunnar

      >

      > http://metrobloggen .se/esperanto
>

    • Rajendra Jadhao
      There is a book named Buddha and His Dhamma (in english) written in the stype of Bible. Borrows heavily from Pali canon. ... From: gdbedell
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 29, 2008
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        There is a book named "Buddha and His Dhamma" (in english) written in the stype of Bible. Borrows heavily from Pali canon.




        ----- Original Message ----
        From: gdbedell <gdbedell@...>
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, February 4, 2008 4:22:18 PM
        Subject: [Pali] the Pali Bible

        Gunnar and Piya,

        Thanks for your responses to my query about the Pali Bible. I had not realized that there
        was one until I read Gunnar's note. I now assume that the reference I found is it. Anyone
        who wishes to see a page should look at the following site:

        www.worldscriptures .org/pages/ pali.html

        My interest in the Pali Bible has no religious motivation whatever, but is purely linguistic,
        though it is related to my use of Bible translations for studying other languages, some of
        which have no easily available literature other than the Bible. As Gunnar suggests, some
        translations are acceptable and useful for linguistic purposes, and some are not. There is
        no way to know without looking at the particular translation. Christians quite justifiably
        boast of the number of languages into which the Bible has been translated, though I think
        this has more to do with several centuries of Western cultural and economic hegemony
        than with any truth or efficacy of Christian ideas.

        I disagree with Piya that a language is necessarily influenced by what is said or written in
        it. Languages are adaptable to whatever their speakers or writers (not limited to native
        speakers or writers) want to use them to say. It might be difficult to show this in the case
        of Pali since, as Gunnar notes, it is overwhelmingly used to convey Buddhist ideas, either
        directly or indirectly. That is one reason why one might be interested in the Pali Bible.
        Anyhow it might not be completely fair to blame the messenger if you are unhappy with
        the message (or conversely to esteem the messenger if you like the message). I also
        doubt that Pali was created to pass on the Dharma. It was (when it was a living language
        in North India) flexible like any other. Historical vicissitudes have resulted in its present
        condition.

        Since Piya has actually read this Bible, I would appreciate it if he could tell us more. Did
        you read it in Burmese script? Did you notice any howlers of the sort suggested by
        Gunnar? And do you know how to obtain a copy? This last question is addressed to
        everyone who reads this list.

        George B

        Decades back, as a monk, I remember reading the Pali Bible, and feeling deeply 
joyful at
        the Pali, but not what is thrusted upon it. It's like pasting a copy of Hieronymus&# 8232; Bosch onto
        a beautiful Chinese nature line-painting, or blowing a trumpet in a
 sensitve rendition of
        sitar music!

        

 In a sense, we can say that a language is heavily influenced by the message it 
habitually
        carries. Pali, being a language specially put together to pass on the
 Dharma, is thoroughly
        coloured by it.
&# 8232;

        Similarly English is often deeply coloured by Christianity, but since English is a 
living
        language, it is constantly evolving. Pali has attained nirvana as it were, so 
it is unlike to
        undergo much change, if any! (Anyone still thinking of conversing in 
Pali :) But, no, we still
        could.
 


        The upadhi-struck minds of some Christians never cease to amaze me. They are
 as
        appropriative as ever. In Singapore, it is not uncommon to see permanent 
banners outside
        churches, shouting: "Jesus is Lord" and there is a "City Harvest
 Church" promising
        prosperity to believers. So we are sheep to the Shepherd,
 fishes for the Fisher of men.
& #8232;

        The Buddha: "let go, and you will be free!"
 


        With metta and mudita,
 


        Piya Tan
&# 8232;

        On Feb 2, 2008 10:13 PM, Gunnar Gällmo <gunnargallmo@ yahoo.se
        > wrote:
 

        >
        > --- George Bedell <gdbedell@yahoo. com <gdbedell%40yahoo. com
        > skrev:

        

 >
        > > Gunnar,

        > >

        > > In your Paliforum post of 1/27, you mentioned 'the
        
> > Pali Bible'. After some investigation online, I

        > > found reference to a New Testament in Burmese script
        
> > attributed to Tolfrey and de Thomas and published in

        > > Colombo in 1835. Is this the one you were referring

        > > to? Whether it is or not, do you have any idea how

        > > to obtain a copy? I would appreciate any

        > > information.
        
>

        > Actually, I don't know any details; I have heard

        > several times that either the Bible, or perhaps only

        > the New Testament, have been translated into Pali to

        > convert bhikkhus. I have also heard that this

        > translation have given some knowledgeable bhikkhus a

        > great joy, but of a quite different kind than the one

        > intended.
        
>
        
> I have heard similar stories about other Bible

        > translations (such a choosing the wrong synonym for
> "love"...)&# 8232;
        >
        
> Some Christians tend to boast about how many languages

        > the Bible has been translated into. I always wished to

        > know how many of these translations are of an
        
> acceptable quality - but I suppose there's no-one who
        
> could check that.
        
>

        > Gunnar

        >

        > http://metrobloggen .se/esperanto& #8232;>&# 8232;





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      • Gunnar Gällmo
        ... I find on the web at least two books with that title, one by Ambedkar (http://tinyurl.com/28csba) and one by Bhikkhu Bodhi (http://tinyurl.com/2gzowb).
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 1, 2008
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          --- Rajendra Jadhao <mastram101@...> skrev:

          > There is a book named "Buddha and His Dhamma" (in
          > english) written in the stype of Bible. Borrows
          > heavily from Pali canon.

          I find on the web at least two books with that title,
          one by Ambedkar (http://tinyurl.com/28csba) and one by
          Bhikkhu Bodhi (http://tinyurl.com/2gzowb).

          Gunnar







          http://metrobloggen.se/esperanto





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