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Tipitaka Editions, variants, phonology, etc.

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  • gnosis.panya
    Hi there everyone how are you all going? I just want to ask some questions and get some opinions. Some background first. I am 23 year old from Australia. I am
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 2, 2008
      Hi there everyone
      how are you all going?

      I just want to ask some questions and get some opinions.

      Some background first.

      I am 23 year old from Australia.

      I am self taught in mostly everything I do but help is great aswell.
      I wish to teach myself many ancient and modern languages.
      Particularly religious languages.

      One of my areas of great interest is the tipitaka and palibhasa.
      I wish to learn enough of indian languages and textual criticism to
      study these texts deeply.

      As a buddhist i feel that a great gift is to think, speak and act
      with love, charity and wisdom.

      I also feel that the mind can be sharp and with those ingredients and
      charity much learning for the good of this world can take place.

      The text has many difficulties (life also) that are hard to work out.
      Such as:
      is the j a 'z' sound?
      why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it is not proper
      pali.
      meaning may well be worked out without solving all of these problems
      but sometimes we may have great difficulties.

      I wish to memorize also so these problems make it troubling.

      If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant over another?

      I have many more questions but for now I will leave with one more.


      Where can I find each of these textual tradition for download?

      Thai edition
      Sixth Council edition
      Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition

      any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?

      I am in the process of creating a nicely organized version of the one
      at tipitaka.org

      painful to download xml files so I am familiarizing myself with the
      cannon as well at converting to html by hand.
    • Piya Tan
      It would be really friendly and polite if you use your real name. Wisdom best comes to those true to themselves and to others. With metta, Piya Tan ... -- The
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 3, 2008
        It would be really friendly and polite if you use your real name. Wisdom
        best
        comes to those true to themselves and to others.

        With metta,

        Piya Tan



        On Feb 3, 2008 1:17 PM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:

        > Hi there everyone
        > how are you all going?
        >
        > I just want to ask some questions and get some opinions.
        >
        > Some background first.
        >
        > I am 23 year old from Australia.
        >
        > I am self taught in mostly everything I do but help is great aswell.
        > I wish to teach myself many ancient and modern languages.
        > Particularly religious languages.
        >
        > One of my areas of great interest is the tipitaka and palibhasa.
        > I wish to learn enough of indian languages and textual criticism to
        > study these texts deeply.
        >
        > As a buddhist i feel that a great gift is to think, speak and act
        > with love, charity and wisdom.
        >
        > I also feel that the mind can be sharp and with those ingredients and
        > charity much learning for the good of this world can take place.
        >
        > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are hard to work out.
        > Such as:
        > is the j a 'z' sound?
        > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it is not proper
        > pali.
        > meaning may well be worked out without solving all of these problems
        > but sometimes we may have great difficulties.
        >
        > I wish to memorize also so these problems make it troubling.
        >
        > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant over another?
        >
        > I have many more questions but for now I will leave with one more.
        >
        > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for download?
        >
        > Thai edition
        > Sixth Council edition
        > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
        >
        > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
        >
        > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized version of the one
        > at tipitaka.org
        >
        > painful to download xml files so I am familiarizing myself with the
        > cannon as well at converting to html by hand.
        >
        >
        >



        --
        The Minding Centre
        Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
        Singapore 650644
        Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko
        Hi Gnosis, ... No. ... For example? ... Perhaps. ... Not available for download http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html ... Not available for download
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 3, 2008
          Hi Gnosis,

          > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are hard to work out.
          > Such as:
          > is the j a 'z' sound?

          No.

          > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it is not proper
          > pali.

          For example?

          > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant over another?

          Perhaps.

          > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for download?
          >
          > Thai edition

          Not available for download
          http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html

          > Sixth Council edition

          Not available for download
          http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/

          > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition

          http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html

          > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?

          http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/Buddhist-Texts/BT-index.htm

          > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized version of the one
          > at tipitaka.org

          I would recommend
          http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/

          See also:
          http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
          http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50

          Best wishes,
          Dmytro
        • gnosis.panya
          Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good help. Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps typos and not scriptural errors in
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 3, 2008
            Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good help.

            Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps typos and
            not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing of two
            vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned little
            correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is difficult
            without a correct version.

            Hi there Piya. How are you?
            I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from anyone.
            I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is certain not of
            either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether the
            internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real life where
            being in the company of people doing naughty things will have a
            negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones name people do
            many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing that.

            By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am all wise and
            all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this world
            needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength, virtue and
            charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses them of being
            secretive by the use of them.

            I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?

            I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing else I can
            give.
            May you live a live of love and may you find what you are looking for.

            On that note I shall go shopping for food.

            May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.

            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi Gnosis,
            >
            > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are hard to work
            out.
            > > Such as:
            > > is the j a 'z' sound?
            >
            > No.
            >
            > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it is not
            proper
            > > pali.
            >
            > For example?
            >
            > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant over another?
            >
            > Perhaps.
            >
            > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for download?
            > >
            > > Thai edition
            >
            > Not available for download
            > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
            >
            > > Sixth Council edition
            >
            > Not available for download
            > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
            >
            > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
            >
            > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
            >
            > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
            >
            > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/Buddhist-Texts/
            BT-index.htm
            >
            > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized version of
            the one
            > > at tipitaka.org
            >
            > I would recommend
            > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
            >
            > See also:
            > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
            > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
            >
            > Best wishes,
            > Dmytro
            >
          • Piya Tan
            Dear Gnosis.panya, In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my errors. Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na. Piya Tan ... -- The Minding Centre Blk
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 3, 2008
              Dear Gnosis.panya,

              In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my errors.

              Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na.

              Piya Tan


              On Feb 4, 2008 8:46 AM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:

              > Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good help.
              >
              > Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps typos and
              > not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing of two
              > vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned little
              > correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is difficult
              > without a correct version.
              >
              > Hi there Piya. How are you?
              > I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from anyone.
              > I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is certain not of
              > either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether the
              > internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real life where
              > being in the company of people doing naughty things will have a
              > negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones name people do
              > many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing that.
              >
              > By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am all wise and
              > all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this world
              > needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength, virtue and
              > charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses them of being
              > secretive by the use of them.
              >
              > I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?
              >
              > I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing else I can
              > give.
              > May you live a live of love and may you find what you are looking for.
              >
              > On that note I shall go shopping for food.
              >
              > May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.
              >
              > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dmytro O.
              > Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@...>
              >
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Gnosis,
              > >
              > > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are hard to work
              > out.
              > > > Such as:
              > > > is the j a 'z' sound?
              > >
              > > No.
              > >
              > > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it is not
              > proper
              > > > pali.
              > >
              > > For example?
              > >
              > > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant over another?
              > >
              > > Perhaps.
              > >
              > > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for download?
              > > >
              > > > Thai edition
              > >
              > > Not available for download
              > > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
              > >
              > > > Sixth Council edition
              > >
              > > Not available for download
              > > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
              > >
              > > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
              > >
              > > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
              > >
              > > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
              > >
              > > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/Buddhist-Texts/
              > BT-index.htm
              > >
              > > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized version of
              > the one
              > > > at tipitaka.org
              > >
              > > I would recommend
              > > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
              > >
              > > See also:
              > > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
              > > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
              > >
              > > Best wishes,
              > > Dmytro
              > >
              >
              >
              >



              --
              The Minding Centre
              Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
              Singapore 650644
              Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • gnosis.panya
              No no Piya. No need to apologize. I am not offended. Even if I was, I see no reality that persuades me to take it seriously, nor personnally. Mistake perhaps.
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 4, 2008
                No no Piya.
                No need to apologize. I am not offended.
                Even if I was, I see no reality that persuades me to take it
                seriously, nor personnally.
                Mistake perhaps.

                I was born with a brain capable of many things but the heart capable
                of many more, I wish to do some things and not others.

                May we work together to build this friendship. :)

                You are forgiven certainly.

                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Piya Tan" <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Gnosis.panya,
                >
                > In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my errors.
                >
                > Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na.
                >
                > Piya Tan
                >
                >
                > On Feb 4, 2008 8:46 AM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good help.
                > >
                > > Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps typos
                and
                > > not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing of two
                > > vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned little
                > > correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is difficult
                > > without a correct version.
                > >
                > > Hi there Piya. How are you?
                > > I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from anyone.
                > > I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is certain not
                of
                > > either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether the
                > > internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real life
                where
                > > being in the company of people doing naughty things will have a
                > > negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones name
                people do
                > > many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing that.
                > >
                > > By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am all wise
                and
                > > all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this world
                > > needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength, virtue and
                > > charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses them of
                being
                > > secretive by the use of them.
                > >
                > > I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?
                > >
                > > I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing else I
                can
                > > give.
                > > May you live a live of love and may you find what you are looking
                for.
                > >
                > > On that note I shall go shopping for food.
                > >
                > > May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.
                > >
                > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dmytro O.
                > > Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@>
                > >
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi Gnosis,
                > > >
                > > > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are hard to
                work
                > > out.
                > > > > Such as:
                > > > > is the j a 'z' sound?
                > > >
                > > > No.
                > > >
                > > > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it is not
                > > proper
                > > > > pali.
                > > >
                > > > For example?
                > > >
                > > > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant over
                another?
                > > >
                > > > Perhaps.
                > > >
                > > > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for download?
                > > > >
                > > > > Thai edition
                > > >
                > > > Not available for download
                > > > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
                > > >
                > > > > Sixth Council edition
                > > >
                > > > Not available for download
                > > > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
                > > >
                > > > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
                > > >
                > > > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
                > > >
                > > > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
                > > >
                > > > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/Buddhist-
                Texts/
                > > BT-index.htm
                > > >
                > > > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized version of
                > > the one
                > > > > at tipitaka.org
                > > >
                > > > I would recommend
                > > > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
                > > >
                > > > See also:
                > > > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
                > > > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
                > > >
                > > > Best wishes,
                > > > Dmytro
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > The Minding Centre
                > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
                > Singapore 650644
                > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Piya Tan
                Yes, right in every way: your happiness is very important to me. If only there are more wise people, the world would be such a happier place. Piya Tan ... --
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 4, 2008
                  Yes, right in every way: your happiness is very important to me.

                  If only there are more wise people, the world would be such a happier place.

                  Piya Tan


                  On Feb 4, 2008 4:18 PM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:

                  > No no Piya.
                  > No need to apologize. I am not offended.
                  > Even if I was, I see no reality that persuades me to take it
                  > seriously, nor personnally.
                  > Mistake perhaps.
                  >
                  > I was born with a brain capable of many things but the heart capable
                  > of many more, I wish to do some things and not others.
                  >
                  > May we work together to build this friendship. :)
                  >
                  > You are forgiven certainly.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
                  > <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Dear Gnosis.panya,
                  > >
                  > > In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my errors.
                  > >
                  > > Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na.
                  > >
                  > > Piya Tan
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On Feb 4, 2008 8:46 AM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good help.
                  > > >
                  > > > Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps typos
                  > and
                  > > > not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing of two
                  > > > vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned little
                  > > > correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is difficult
                  > > > without a correct version.
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi there Piya. How are you?
                  > > > I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from anyone.
                  > > > I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is certain not
                  > of
                  > > > either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether the
                  > > > internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real life
                  > where
                  > > > being in the company of people doing naughty things will have a
                  > > > negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones name
                  > people do
                  > > > many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing that.
                  > > >
                  > > > By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am all wise
                  > and
                  > > > all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this world
                  > > > needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength, virtue and
                  > > > charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses them of
                  > being
                  > > > secretive by the use of them.
                  > > >
                  > > > I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?
                  > > >
                  > > > I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing else I
                  > can
                  > > > give.
                  > > > May you live a live of love and may you find what you are looking
                  > for.
                  > > >
                  > > > On that note I shall go shopping for food.
                  > > >
                  > > > May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dmytro O.
                  >
                  > > > Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@>
                  > > >
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi Gnosis,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are hard to
                  > work
                  > > > out.
                  > > > > > Such as:
                  > > > > > is the j a 'z' sound?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > No.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it is not
                  > > > proper
                  > > > > > pali.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > For example?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant over
                  > another?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Perhaps.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for download?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Thai edition
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Not available for download
                  > > > > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > Sixth Council edition
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Not available for download
                  > > > > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/Buddhist-
                  > Texts/
                  > > > BT-index.htm
                  > > > >
                  > > > > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized version of
                  > > > the one
                  > > > > > at tipitaka.org
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I would recommend
                  > > > > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
                  > > > >
                  > > > > See also:
                  > > > > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
                  > > > > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Best wishes,
                  > > > > Dmytro
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > The Minding Centre
                  > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
                  > > Singapore 650644
                  > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  The Minding Centre
                  Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
                  Singapore 650644
                  Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • gnosis.panya
                  Opinions may differ and life is all the richer for it but true compassion is not an opinion (in my opinion), just a flower waiting to be born in our hearts.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 4, 2008
                    Opinions may differ and life is all the richer for it but true
                    compassion is not an opinion (in my opinion), just a flower waiting
                    to be born in our hearts.

                    Now Piya, please tell me about your experiences with pali and the
                    tipitaka and any hints and some less than obvious things you have
                    noticed.

                    How close can learning through the books come to reading th tipitaka?

                    Also, do you know of any metre studies that i can use to read outloud
                    the text so I can use my ear to train myself in the use of the
                    language? (I use audio learning very well.)

                    Thanks very much.

                    --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Piya Tan" <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Yes, right in every way: your happiness is very important to me.
                    >
                    > If only there are more wise people, the world would be such a
                    happier place.
                    >
                    > Piya Tan
                    >
                    >
                    > On Feb 4, 2008 4:18 PM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > No no Piya.
                    > > No need to apologize. I am not offended.
                    > > Even if I was, I see no reality that persuades me to take it
                    > > seriously, nor personnally.
                    > > Mistake perhaps.
                    > >
                    > > I was born with a brain capable of many things but the heart
                    capable
                    > > of many more, I wish to do some things and not others.
                    > >
                    > > May we work together to build this friendship. :)
                    > >
                    > > You are forgiven certainly.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
                    > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Dear Gnosis.panya,
                    > > >
                    > > > In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my
                    errors.
                    > > >
                    > > > Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na.
                    > > >
                    > > > Piya Tan
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > On Feb 4, 2008 8:46 AM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > > Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good
                    help.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps
                    typos
                    > > and
                    > > > > not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing of
                    two
                    > > > > vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned little
                    > > > > correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is difficult
                    > > > > without a correct version.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi there Piya. How are you?
                    > > > > I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from anyone.
                    > > > > I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is certain
                    not
                    > > of
                    > > > > either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether the
                    > > > > internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real life
                    > > where
                    > > > > being in the company of people doing naughty things will have
                    a
                    > > > > negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones name
                    > > people do
                    > > > > many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing that.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am all
                    wise
                    > > and
                    > > > > all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this
                    world
                    > > > > needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength, virtue
                    and
                    > > > > charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses them of
                    > > being
                    > > > > secretive by the use of them.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing else
                    I
                    > > can
                    > > > > give.
                    > > > > May you live a live of love and may you find what you are
                    looking
                    > > for.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > On that note I shall go shopping for food.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com
                    <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dmytro O.
                    > >
                    > > > > Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@>
                    > > > >
                    > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hi Gnosis,
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are hard
                    to
                    > > work
                    > > > > out.
                    > > > > > > Such as:
                    > > > > > > is the j a 'z' sound?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > No.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it is not
                    > > > > proper
                    > > > > > > pali.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > For example?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant over
                    > > another?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Perhaps.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for
                    download?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Thai edition
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Not available for download
                    > > > > > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Sixth Council edition
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Not available for download
                    > > > > > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/Buddhist-
                    > > Texts/
                    > > > > BT-index.htm
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized
                    version of
                    > > > > the one
                    > > > > > > at tipitaka.org
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I would recommend
                    > > > > > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > See also:
                    > > > > > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
                    > > > > > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Best wishes,
                    > > > > > Dmytro
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --
                    > > > The Minding Centre
                    > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
                    > > > Singapore 650644
                    > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > The Minding Centre
                    > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
                    > Singapore 650644
                    > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • P G Dave
                    Dear gnosis.panya, it would be lovely if you described the process / steps you follow for audio learning. many of us and I for sure would bnefit from applying
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 5, 2008
                      Dear gnosis.panya,

                      it would be lovely if you described the process / steps you follow for audio
                      learning. many of us and I for sure would bnefit from applying your method.

                      metta,
                      ______________________________________________


                      On 2/5/08, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Opinions may differ and life is all the richer for it but true
                      > compassion is not an opinion (in my opinion), just a flower waiting
                      > to be born in our hearts.
                      >
                      > Now Piya, please tell me about your experiences with pali and the
                      > tipitaka and any hints and some less than obvious things you have
                      > noticed.
                      >
                      > How close can learning through the books come to reading th tipitaka?
                      >
                      > Also, do you know of any metre studies that i can use to read outloud
                      > the text so I can use my ear to train myself in the use of the
                      > language? (I use audio learning very well.)
                      >
                      > Thanks very much.
                      >
                      > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
                      > <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Yes, right in every way: your happiness is very important to me.
                      > >
                      > > If only there are more wise people, the world would be such a
                      > happier place.
                      > >
                      > > Piya Tan
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On Feb 4, 2008 4:18 PM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > No no Piya.
                      > > > No need to apologize. I am not offended.
                      > > > Even if I was, I see no reality that persuades me to take it
                      > > > seriously, nor personnally.
                      > > > Mistake perhaps.
                      > > >
                      > > > I was born with a brain capable of many things but the heart
                      > capable
                      > > > of many more, I wish to do some things and not others.
                      > > >
                      > > > May we work together to build this friendship. :)
                      > > >
                      > > > You are forgiven certainly.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
                      > > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Dear Gnosis.panya,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my
                      > errors.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Piya Tan
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > On Feb 4, 2008 8:46 AM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good
                      > help.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps
                      > typos
                      > > > and
                      > > > > > not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing of
                      > two
                      > > > > > vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned little
                      > > > > > correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is difficult
                      > > > > > without a correct version.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hi there Piya. How are you?
                      > > > > > I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from anyone.
                      > > > > > I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is certain
                      > not
                      > > > of
                      > > > > > either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether the
                      > > > > > internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real life
                      > > > where
                      > > > > > being in the company of people doing naughty things will have
                      > a
                      > > > > > negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones name
                      > > > people do
                      > > > > > many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing that.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am all
                      > wise
                      > > > and
                      > > > > > all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this
                      > world
                      > > > > > needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength, virtue
                      > and
                      > > > > > charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses them of
                      > > > being
                      > > > > > secretive by the use of them.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing else
                      > I
                      > > > can
                      > > > > > give.
                      > > > > > May you live a live of love and may you find what you are
                      > looking
                      > > > for.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > On that note I shall go shopping for food.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dmytro O.
                      > > >
                      > > > > > Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@>
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Hi Gnosis,
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are hard
                      > to
                      > > > work
                      > > > > > out.
                      > > > > > > > Such as:
                      > > > > > > > is the j a 'z' sound?
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > No.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it is not
                      > > > > > proper
                      > > > > > > > pali.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > For example?
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant over
                      > > > another?
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Perhaps.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for
                      > download?
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Thai edition
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Not available for download
                      > > > > > > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Sixth Council edition
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Not available for download
                      > > > > > > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/Buddhist-
                      > > > Texts/
                      > > > > > BT-index.htm
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized
                      > version of
                      > > > > > the one
                      > > > > > > > at tipitaka.org
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > I would recommend
                      > > > > > > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > See also:
                      > > > > > > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
                      > > > > > > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Best wishes,
                      > > > > > > Dmytro
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --
                      > > > > The Minding Centre
                      > > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
                      > > > > Singapore 650644
                      > > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > The Minding Centre
                      > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
                      > > Singapore 650644
                      > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • gnosis.panya
                      I am not totally sure or all the hows of my learning process. Always been a musical person and hypersensitive to sound. Learning fast has always come natural
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 6, 2008
                        I am not totally sure or all the hows of my learning process.
                        Always been a musical person and hypersensitive to sound.
                        Learning fast has always come natural to me.

                        I can give some advice to one who would like to memorize texts or
                        learn language.
                        Perhaps I will be rehashing some advice given online but I will try
                        to explain what happens.

                        I do not speak any foreign languages fluently due to life
                        circumstances so I am no "guru". I have yet to study any intensively.

                        For example: in Lithuanian I only know the name of the language and
                        how to say excuse me. No grammatical awareness.
                        Hebrew: A few dozen sentences. Slight grammatical knowledge.
                        German. Many words. Quite a few sentence structures are understood.
                        About 20 or 30 more in between those. Some I can read some I can only
                        pronounce.

                        Every few weeks I simply listen to language audio.
                        If I cannot find any there is a setback but not a huge one if the
                        language is somewhat phonetic. Pali is good in this circumstance.

                        In that case I read out many words slowly and think of all the indian
                        accents of people I know.There will have been changes over the years
                        but it does help to get it into my head.After a while i felt the S-O-
                        V structure getting into my head.
                        I knew where to put things.

                        I am interested in memory training but I find myself moving away from
                        mnemonics and onto rote memory training.I memorized For Whom The Bell
                        Tolls - John Donne in about 3 readings outloud. (89 words, 14
                        lines)Repetition is key, review is the foundation.

                        For languages place new words in old structures.

                        Example:
                        I am cooking.
                        understand that sentence.
                        while cooking say it outloud or internally.

                        then when writing replace that one word.

                        In some languages that use dual verbs that can be difficult to start
                        with but pali i think does not have that problem.

                        I am not totally sure what I do that works so well but I just hear,
                        repeat, imagine with many senses and I know it.

                        Not sure if any of that is the slightest perhaps we can chat online
                        some more about it and I can get feedback from you to help give me
                        the motivations needed to look deeper at the proccess.

                        Audio is only my dominant learning style but I build the others
                        constantly aswell. That is making hearing stronger.

                        Have a good day there P G Dave.

                        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "P G Dave" <pgd2507@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear gnosis.panya,
                        >
                        > it would be lovely if you described the process / steps you follow
                        for audio
                        > learning. many of us and I for sure would bnefit from applying your
                        method.
                        >
                        > metta,
                        > ______________________________________________
                        >
                        >
                        > On 2/5/08, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Opinions may differ and life is all the richer for it but true
                        > > compassion is not an opinion (in my opinion), just a flower
                        waiting
                        > > to be born in our hearts.
                        > >
                        > > Now Piya, please tell me about your experiences with pali and the
                        > > tipitaka and any hints and some less than obvious things you have
                        > > noticed.
                        > >
                        > > How close can learning through the books come to reading th
                        tipitaka?
                        > >
                        > > Also, do you know of any metre studies that i can use to read
                        outloud
                        > > the text so I can use my ear to train myself in the use of the
                        > > language? (I use audio learning very well.)
                        > >
                        > > Thanks very much.
                        > >
                        > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
                        > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Yes, right in every way: your happiness is very important to me.
                        > > >
                        > > > If only there are more wise people, the world would be such a
                        > > happier place.
                        > > >
                        > > > Piya Tan
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > On Feb 4, 2008 4:18 PM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > > No no Piya.
                        > > > > No need to apologize. I am not offended.
                        > > > > Even if I was, I see no reality that persuades me to take it
                        > > > > seriously, nor personnally.
                        > > > > Mistake perhaps.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I was born with a brain capable of many things but the heart
                        > > capable
                        > > > > of many more, I wish to do some things and not others.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > May we work together to build this friendship. :)
                        > > > >
                        > > > > You are forgiven certainly.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com
                        <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
                        > > > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Dear Gnosis.panya,
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my
                        > > errors.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Piya Tan
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > On Feb 4, 2008 8:46 AM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good
                        > > help.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps
                        > > typos
                        > > > > and
                        > > > > > > not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing
                        of
                        > > two
                        > > > > > > vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned
                        little
                        > > > > > > correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is
                        difficult
                        > > > > > > without a correct version.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Hi there Piya. How are you?
                        > > > > > > I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from
                        anyone.
                        > > > > > > I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is
                        certain
                        > > not
                        > > > > of
                        > > > > > > either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether
                        the
                        > > > > > > internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real
                        life
                        > > > > where
                        > > > > > > being in the company of people doing naughty things will
                        have
                        > > a
                        > > > > > > negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones
                        name
                        > > > > people do
                        > > > > > > many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing
                        that.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am
                        all
                        > > wise
                        > > > > and
                        > > > > > > all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this
                        > > world
                        > > > > > > needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength,
                        virtue
                        > > and
                        > > > > > > charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses
                        them of
                        > > > > being
                        > > > > > > secretive by the use of them.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing
                        else
                        > > I
                        > > > > can
                        > > > > > > give.
                        > > > > > > May you live a live of love and may you find what you are
                        > > looking
                        > > > > for.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > On that note I shall go shopping for food.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dmytro O.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > > Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@>
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > wrote:
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Hi Gnosis,
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are
                        hard
                        > > to
                        > > > > work
                        > > > > > > out.
                        > > > > > > > > Such as:
                        > > > > > > > > is the j a 'z' sound?
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > No.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it
                        is not
                        > > > > > > proper
                        > > > > > > > > pali.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > For example?
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant
                        over
                        > > > > another?
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Perhaps.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for
                        > > download?
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > Thai edition
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Not available for download
                        > > > > > > > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > Sixth Council edition
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Not available for download
                        > > > > > > > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/
                        Buddhist-
                        > > > > Texts/
                        > > > > > > BT-index.htm
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized
                        > > version of
                        > > > > > > the one
                        > > > > > > > > at tipitaka.org
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > I would recommend
                        > > > > > > > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > See also:
                        > > > > > > > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
                        > > > > > > > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Best wishes,
                        > > > > > > > Dmytro
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --
                        > > > > > The Minding Centre
                        > > > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
                        > > > > > Singapore 650644
                        > > > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --
                        > > > The Minding Centre
                        > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
                        > > > Singapore 650644
                        > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • P G Dave
                        gnosis.panya & other group members, is anyone aware of any audio lessons for learning pali in a natural style -- perhaps somewhat akin to the way a child
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 6, 2008
                          gnosis.panya & other group members,

                          is anyone aware of any audio lessons for learning pali in a natural style --
                          perhaps somewhat akin to the way a child learns a language.
                          ________________________________________________________

                          On 2/7/08, P G Dave <pgd2507@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > that was sweet.
                          > and so clear.
                          > do u also sometimes record yourself while reading aloud and listen to the
                          > play back?
                          >
                          > thanks for the effort, brother.
                          >
                          > metta
                          > ___________________________
                          >
                          >
                          > On 2/6/08, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I am not totally sure or all the hows of my learning process.
                          > > Always been a musical person and hypersensitive to sound.
                          > > Learning fast has always come natural to me.
                          > >
                          > > I can give some advice to one who would like to memorize texts or
                          > > learn language.
                          > > Perhaps I will be rehashing some advice given online but I will try
                          > > to explain what happens.
                          > >
                          > > I do not speak any foreign languages fluently due to life
                          > > circumstances so I am no "guru". I have yet to study any intensively.
                          > >
                          > > For example: in Lithuanian I only know the name of the language and
                          > > how to say excuse me. No grammatical awareness.
                          > > Hebrew: A few dozen sentences. Slight grammatical knowledge.
                          > > German. Many words. Quite a few sentence structures are understood.
                          > > About 20 or 30 more in between those. Some I can read some I can only
                          > > pronounce.
                          > >
                          > > Every few weeks I simply listen to language audio.
                          > > If I cannot find any there is a setback but not a huge one if the
                          > > language is somewhat phonetic. Pali is good in this circumstance.
                          > >
                          > > In that case I read out many words slowly and think of all the indian
                          > > accents of people I know.There will have been changes over the years
                          > > but it does help to get it into my head.After a while i felt the S-O-
                          > > V structure getting into my head.
                          > > I knew where to put things.
                          > >
                          > > I am interested in memory training but I find myself moving away from
                          > > mnemonics and onto rote memory training.I memorized For Whom The Bell
                          > > Tolls - John Donne in about 3 readings outloud. (89 words, 14
                          > > lines)Repetition is key, review is the foundation.
                          > >
                          > > For languages place new words in old structures.
                          > >
                          > > Example:
                          > > I am cooking.
                          > > understand that sentence.
                          > > while cooking say it outloud or internally.
                          > >
                          > > then when writing replace that one word.
                          > >
                          > > In some languages that use dual verbs that can be difficult to start
                          > > with but pali i think does not have that problem.
                          > >
                          > > I am not totally sure what I do that works so well but I just hear,
                          > > repeat, imagine with many senses and I know it.
                          > >
                          > > Not sure if any of that is the slightest perhaps we can chat online
                          > > some more about it and I can get feedback from you to help give me
                          > > the motivations needed to look deeper at the proccess.
                          > >
                          > > Audio is only my dominant learning style but I build the others
                          > > constantly aswell. That is making hearing stronger.
                          > >
                          > > Have a good day there P G Dave.
                          > >
                          > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "P G Dave"
                          > > <pgd2507@...> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Dear gnosis.panya,
                          > > >
                          > > > it would be lovely if you described the process / steps you follow
                          > > for audio
                          > > > learning. many of us and I for sure would bnefit from applying your
                          > > method.
                          > > >
                          > > > metta,
                          > > > ______________________________________________
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > On 2/5/08, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@...> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Opinions may differ and life is all the richer for it but true
                          > > > > compassion is not an opinion (in my opinion), just a flower
                          > > waiting
                          > > > > to be born in our hearts.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Now Piya, please tell me about your experiences with pali and the
                          > > > > tipitaka and any hints and some less than obvious things you have
                          > > > > noticed.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > How close can learning through the books come to reading th
                          > > tipitaka?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Also, do you know of any metre studies that i can use to read
                          > > outloud
                          > > > > the text so I can use my ear to train myself in the use of the
                          > > > > language? (I use audio learning very well.)
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Thanks very much.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
                          > > > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Yes, right in every way: your happiness is very important to me.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > If only there are more wise people, the world would be such a
                          > > > > happier place.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Piya Tan
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > On Feb 4, 2008 4:18 PM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > > No no Piya.
                          > > > > > > No need to apologize. I am not offended.
                          > > > > > > Even if I was, I see no reality that persuades me to take it
                          > > > > > > seriously, nor personnally.
                          > > > > > > Mistake perhaps.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I was born with a brain capable of many things but the heart
                          > > > > capable
                          > > > > > > of many more, I wish to do some things and not others.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > May we work together to build this friendship. :)
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > You are forgiven certainly.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
                          > > > > > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Dear Gnosis.panya,
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > In that case, i deeply apologize. May others benefit from my
                          > > > > errors.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Khamatu ma.m ~naa.na,pa~n~na.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Piya Tan
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > On Feb 4, 2008 8:46 AM, gnosis.panya <gnosis.panya@> wrote:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Thankyou very much for your answer Dmytro. That is a good
                          > > > > help.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Double vowels occur sometimes and i think they are perhps
                          > > > > typos
                          > > > > > > and
                          > > > > > > > > not scriptural errors in some of the scripts the writing
                          > > of
                          > > > > two
                          > > > > > > > > vowels in that way is not really possible so would ned
                          > > little
                          > > > > > > > > correction. It is knowing what to correct to that is
                          > > difficult
                          > > > > > > > > without a correct version.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Hi there Piya. How are you?
                          > > > > > > > > I am not here to be impolite or to hide anything from
                          > > anyone.
                          > > > > > > > > I have no method of deception and using an "alias" is
                          > > certain
                          > > > > not
                          > > > > > > of
                          > > > > > > > > either.I think there needs not be any debate as to wether
                          > > the
                          > > > > > > > > internet is a a safe place or not.It is not like in real
                          > > life
                          > > > > > > where
                          > > > > > > > > being in the company of people doing naughty things will
                          > > have
                          > > > > a
                          > > > > > > > > negative influence on oneself but simply by using ones
                          > > name
                          > > > > > > people do
                          > > > > > > > > many underhanded things and I feel no problem with doing
                          > > that.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > By calling myself gnosis.panya I do not mean to say I am
                          > > all
                          > > > > wise
                          > > > > > > and
                          > > > > > > > > all knowing. But merely that my heart feels that what this
                          > > > > world
                          > > > > > > > > needs is wisdom. Certainly also compassion, strength,
                          > > virtue
                          > > > > and
                          > > > > > > > > charity. Monks have different names and noone accuses
                          > > them of
                          > > > > > > being
                          > > > > > > > > secretive by the use of them.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > I am no monk but does a name make or break a monk?
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > I offer you my good intentions Piya and there is nothing
                          > > else
                          > > > > I
                          > > > > > > can
                          > > > > > > > > give.
                          > > > > > > > > May you live a live of love and may you find what you are
                          > > > > looking
                          > > > > > > for.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > On that note I shall go shopping for food.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > May you all be happy and have a good day, rain or not.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > > <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dmytro O.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@>
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > wrote:
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > Hi Gnosis,
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > > The text has many difficulties (life also) that are
                          > > hard
                          > > > > to
                          > > > > > > work
                          > > > > > > > > out.
                          > > > > > > > > > > Such as:
                          > > > > > > > > > > is the j a 'z' sound?
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > No.
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > > why are there a lot of 2 vowel pairs even though it
                          > > is not
                          > > > > > > > > proper
                          > > > > > > > > > > pali.
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > For example?
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > > If one is to memorize, must one go with one variant
                          > > over
                          > > > > > > another?
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > Perhaps.
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > > Where can I find each of these textual tradition for
                          > > > > download?
                          > > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > > Thai edition
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > Not available for download
                          > > > > > > > > > http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir-main.html
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > > Sixth Council edition
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > Not available for download
                          > > > > > > > > > http://www.dhammasociety.org/mds/
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > > Sinhalese (Buddha Jayanti) edition
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > http://www.buddhistethics.org/palicanon.html
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > > any older texts such as kharosthi, or gandharan?
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > http://www.buddhanet-de.net/ancient-buddhist-texts/
                          > > Buddhist-
                          > > > > > > Texts/
                          > > > > > > > > BT-index.htm
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > > I am in the process of creating a nicely organized
                          > > > > version of
                          > > > > > > > > the one
                          > > > > > > > > > > at tipitaka.org
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > I would recommend
                          > > > > > > > > > http://www.tipitaka.org/cst/
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > See also:
                          > > > > > > > > > http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/
                          > > > > > > > > > http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showforum=50
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > > Best wishes,
                          > > > > > > > > > Dmytro
                          > > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > --
                          > > > > > > > The Minding Centre
                          > > > > > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
                          > > > > > > > Singapore 650644
                          > > > > > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --
                          > > > > > The Minding Centre
                          > > > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
                          > > > > > Singapore 650644
                          > > > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko
                          Hi Gnosis, ... You may find useful Pali chanting: http://www.dhamma.ru/sadhu/modules/mylinks/viewcat.php?cid=150 Best wishes, Dmytro
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 6, 2008
                            Hi Gnosis,

                            > Also, do you know of any metre studies that i can use to read outloud
                            > the text so I can use my ear to train myself in the use of the
                            > language? (I use audio learning very well.)

                            You may find useful Pali chanting:

                            http://www.dhamma.ru/sadhu/modules/mylinks/viewcat.php?cid=150

                            Best wishes, Dmytro
                          • gnosis.panya
                            These resources and very well put together. Thankyou Dmytro. ... outloud
                            Message 13 of 13 , Feb 7, 2008
                              These resources and very well put together.
                              Thankyou Dmytro.

                              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Gnosis,
                              >
                              > > Also, do you know of any metre studies that i can use to read
                              outloud
                              > > the text so I can use my ear to train myself in the use of the
                              > > language? (I use audio learning very well.)
                              >
                              > You may find useful Pali chanting:
                              >
                              > http://www.dhamma.ru/sadhu/modules/mylinks/viewcat.php?cid=150
                              >
                              > Best wishes, Dmytro
                              >
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