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Re: Sutta on Protecting the Dhamma

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  • Robert Eddison
    ... Bhante, I think it might be the Can.kii Sutta (M 95) that you have in mind, though it is actually sacca, not Dhamma, that one is to protect. Kittaavataa
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 22, 2002
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      >Dear Palians,
      >
      >Need help to locate a sutta again. This time, I'm looking for one that
      >speaks of how one, when speaking on the Dhamma, protect the Dhamma: If he
      >speaks on a point that he does not know for sure, but understands (or
      >believes) it to be so, than he should say that that's what he understands
      >(or believes).
      >
      >Thanking you in advance,
      >ven k

      Bhante,

      I think it might be the Can.kii Sutta (M 95) that you have in mind, though
      it is actually sacca, not Dhamma, that one is to protect.

      Kittaavataa pana, bho Gotama, saccaanurakkha.naa hoti, kittaavataa
      saccamanurakkhati? Saccaanurakkha.na.m maya.m bhavanta.m Gotama.m
      pucchaamaa' ti. Saddhaa cepi, Bhaaradvaaja, purisassa hoti, eva.m me
      saddhaa' ti: iti vada.m saccamanurakkhati, natveva taava eka.msena
      ni.t.tha.m gacchati: idameva sacca.m, moghama~n~nan' ti. ettaavataa kho,
      Bhaaradvaaja, saccaanurakkha.naa hoti, ettaavataa saccamanurakkhati,
      ettaavataa ca maya.m saccaanurakkha.na.m pa~n~napema; na tveva taava
      saccaanubodho hotii' ti.

      "But, Master Gotama, in what way is there the preservation of truth? How
      does one preserve truth? We ask Master Gotama about the preservation of
      truth.

      "If a person has faith, Bhaaradvaaja, he preserves truth when he says 'My
      faith is thus'; but he does not yet come to the definite conclusion: 'Only
      this is true, anything else is false.' In this way, Bhaaradvaaja, there
      is the preservation of truth; in this way one preserves truth; in this way
      we make known the preservation of truth. But as yet there is no awakening
      to truth."

      [The same is then repeated replacing saddhaa with: ruci, anussava,
      aakaaraparivitakka, and di.t.thinijjhaanakkhanti.]


      Best wishes,

      Robert
    • rahula_80
      Hi, I am a Buddhist. I read about Buddhism (including attend lectures etc.) Reading some books and surfing the internet, I have found translations of the Pali
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 22, 2002
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        Hi,

        I am a Buddhist. I read about Buddhism (including attend lectures
        etc.)

        Reading some books and surfing the internet, I have found translations
        of the Pali Text which challenge what I learn about Buddhism in
        English. Now, I began to doubt whether what I have been taught and
        read is the correct presentation of Buddhism.

        For that reason, I am starting to learn Pali. I just get a copy of
        Pali Primer by Lily Silva. But it would be years before I can really
        read and understand Pali.

        So, I hope this group can help me solve my doubts while I am learning
        Pali in the meantime.


        Thanks,
      • abhidhammika
        Dear Rahula You have made the right decision (sammaa adhimokkho) to learn Pali. With one or two years of serious dedicated learning of Pali grammar, you could
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 24, 2002
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          Dear Rahula

          You have made the right decision (sammaa adhimokkho) to learn Pali.

          With one or two years of serious dedicated learning of Pali grammar,
          you could begin reading Pali with a good dictionary.

          My experience with Pali (and Sanskrit) tells me that sandhi (joining
          of words) is vitally important for proper analysis of Pali phrases.
          That is to say, unlike English, you need to be able to first analyse
          and separate the joined words and phrases of Pali, and this is before
          you are even able to use the dictionaries because they usually give
          the definitions of already separated words.

          It is the most wonderful experience to read the words of the Buddha
          in his original natural spoken language that is Pali.

          Because Pali is a natural spoken language, you, as a new student,
          need to be very patient with many variants of case-endings and the
          like.

          So, as a beginner's strategy, do not be intimidated by those variants
          that look chaotic and random. Just concentrate on simpler, regular
          forms and move on to get the whole picture of the Pali syntax.

          Once you get your Pali syntax right, you have plenty of time to work
          on chaotic-looking variant forms gradually later.

          After one or two years of Pali learning, you could visit the
          bodhiology website to read some rare or fresh Pali translations with
          some degree of complexity to perform "Syntax Walkthrough".

          With kind regards,

          Suan Lu Zaw

          http://www.bodhiology.org




          --- In Pali@y..., "rahula_80" <rahula_80@y...> wrote:

          Hi,

          I am a Buddhist. I read about Buddhism (including attend lectures
          etc.)

          Reading some books and surfing the internet, I have found
          translations
          of the Pali Text which challenge what I learn about Buddhism in
          English. Now, I began to doubt whether what I have been taught and
          read is the correct presentation of Buddhism.

          For that reason, I am starting to learn Pali. I just get a copy of
          Pali Primer by Lily Silva. But it would be years before I can really
          read and understand Pali.

          So, I hope this group can help me solve my doubts while I am learning
          Pali in the meantime.


          Thanks,
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