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Re: [Pali] Re: Re: Re: can anyone analyze this word, upaayaasa

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  • P G Dave
    Thank you, Piya. I wud like a link to Vism on the internet if available. Metta _________________________________ ... [Non-text portions of this message have
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 23, 2007
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      Thank you, Piya.
      I wud like a link to Vism on the internet if available.
      Metta
      _________________________________


      On 11/24/07, Piya Tan <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear PG,
      >
      > Vism = Visuddhi Magga (translated as "The Path of Purity" etc).
      > It is Buddhaghosa's magnus opus, a summary of the Buddhist path as
      > endorsed by the Mahavihara monastery in Sri Lanka in his time.
      >
      > Perhaps others might follow with more details.
      >
      > Best wishes,
      >
      > Piya
      >
      > On Nov 23, 2007 1:44 AM, P G Dave <pgd2507@... <pgd2507%40gmail.com>>
      > wrote:
      >
      > > sorry to barge in.
      > >
      > > I haven't heard of the "Vism" (forgive my ignorance). Is it a Pali word
      > or
      > > an english word?
      > > what is the authorship? is it some sort of a summary of the tipitaka?
      > > I google searched "Vism" noting helpful came up.
      > >
      > > thanks in advance for a reply.
      > > metta.
      > > _______________________________
      > >
      > > On 11/22/07, Noah Yuttadhammo <yuttadhammo@...<yuttadhammo%40sirimangalo.org><yuttadhammo%40sirimangalo.org>>
      >
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > At 22 Nov 2007 16:12:17 +0800 Piya Tan wrote:
      > > > > Ven Yuttadhammo,
      > > > >
      > > > > I often consult the Vism, but I would first check to see if the
      > Suttas
      > > > have
      > > > > the word or
      > > > > concept first. They are like a book (Suttas) and a pair of
      > spectacles
      > > > > (Vism).
      > > > >
      > > > > Even if I do not have my spectacles, I can still beneift from the
      > > book,
      > > > but
      > > > > the spectacles
      > > > > would not be so useful without the book :)
      > > >
      > > > Not to be argumentative, but I don't agree with the anology... that is
      > > > saying that the Vism. has no value if taken on its own, which of
      > course
      > > is
      > > > to also deny the value of the canonical material it contains.
      > > >
      > > > Maybe the Vism. is like condensed chicken soup, and the tipitaka is
      > like
      > > > adding water and spices. Of course, the latter is to be preferred, but
      > > the
      > > > former will do in a pinch, and is much quicker.
      > > >
      > > > Or the Tipitaka is like a vast road map, and the Vism specific
      > > directions.
      > > > The former is okay if you have time to study it thoroughly and pick
      > the
      > > > right roads, but the latter will do for someone with little time and a
      > > > destination to reach.
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, take your pick, I've given both.
      > > >
      > > > > Best wishes in your coming exams.
      > > >
      > > > Thank you - an ordination the day before will make things interesting!
      > > >
      > > > Best wishes,
      > > >
      > > > Yuttadhammo
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > --
      > The Minding Centre
      > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
      > Singapore 650644
      > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Piya Tan
      You might like to try this (this is Yuttadhammo s Digital Pali Reader): http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/ However it is all in Pali. The full Vism
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 25, 2007
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        You might like to try this (this is Yuttadhammo's Digital Pali Reader):

        http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/

        However it is all in Pali. The full Vism translation not available online:
        I would love to know if there is one.

        Metta,

        Piya

        On Nov 24, 2007 10:06 AM, P G Dave <pgd2507@...> wrote:

        > Thank you, Piya.
        > I wud like a link to Vism on the internet if available.
        > Metta
        > _________________________________
        >
        >
        > On 11/24/07, Piya Tan <dharmafarer@... <dharmafarer%40gmail.com>>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Dear PG,
        > >
        > > Vism = Visuddhi Magga (translated as "The Path of Purity" etc).
        > > It is Buddhaghosa's magnus opus, a summary of the Buddhist path as
        > > endorsed by the Mahavihara monastery in Sri Lanka in his time.
        > >
        > > Perhaps others might follow with more details.
        > >
        > > Best wishes,
        > >
        > > Piya
        > >
        > > On Nov 23, 2007 1:44 AM, P G Dave <pgd2507@...<pgd2507%40gmail.com><pgd2507%40gmail.com>>
        > > wrote:
        > >
        > > > sorry to barge in.
        > > >
        > > > I haven't heard of the "Vism" (forgive my ignorance). Is it a Pali
        > word
        > > or
        > > > an english word?
        > > > what is the authorship? is it some sort of a summary of the tipitaka?
        > > > I google searched "Vism" noting helpful came up.
        > > >
        > > > thanks in advance for a reply.
        > > > metta.
        > > > _______________________________
        > > >
        > > > On 11/22/07, Noah Yuttadhammo <yuttadhammo@...<yuttadhammo%40sirimangalo.org>
        > <yuttadhammo%40sirimangalo.org><yuttadhammo%40sirimangalo.org>>
        >
        > >
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > At 22 Nov 2007 16:12:17 +0800 Piya Tan wrote:
        > > > > > Ven Yuttadhammo,
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I often consult the Vism, but I would first check to see if the
        > > Suttas
        > > > > have
        > > > > > the word or
        > > > > > concept first. They are like a book (Suttas) and a pair of
        > > spectacles
        > > > > > (Vism).
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Even if I do not have my spectacles, I can still beneift from the
        > > > book,
        > > > > but
        > > > > > the spectacles
        > > > > > would not be so useful without the book :)
        > > > >
        > > > > Not to be argumentative, but I don't agree with the anology... that
        > is
        > > > > saying that the Vism. has no value if taken on its own, which of
        > > course
        > > > is
        > > > > to also deny the value of the canonical material it contains.
        > > > >
        > > > > Maybe the Vism. is like condensed chicken soup, and the tipitaka is
        > > like
        > > > > adding water and spices. Of course, the latter is to be preferred,
        > but
        > > > the
        > > > > former will do in a pinch, and is much quicker.
        > > > >
        > > > > Or the Tipitaka is like a vast road map, and the Vism specific
        > > > directions.
        > > > > The former is okay if you have time to study it thoroughly and pick
        > > the
        > > > > right roads, but the latter will do for someone with little time and
        > a
        > > > > destination to reach.
        > > > >
        > > > > Anyway, take your pick, I've given both.
        > > > >
        > > > > > Best wishes in your coming exams.
        > > > >
        > > > > Thank you - an ordination the day before will make things
        > interesting!
        > > > >
        > > > > Best wishes,
        > > > >
        > > > > Yuttadhammo
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > The Minding Centre
        > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
        > > Singapore 650644
        > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >



        --
        The Minding Centre
        Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
        Singapore 650644
        Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Yuttadhammo
        ... There IS one... ATI worked with the BPS to make a new electronic version. The website claimed that this would be the blueprint for both a published and an
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 25, 2007
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          At 25 Nov 2007 16:57:57 +0800 Piya Tan wrote:
          > However it is all in Pali. The full Vism translation not available online:
          > I would love to know if there is one.

          There IS one... ATI worked with the BPS to make a new electronic version. The website claimed that this would be the blueprint for both a published and an e-version, and solicited volunteers to make it happen. Now it seems it has been sent to the BPS for publication but no sign of a public domain e-version... you can get a beautifully-done hardcover volume free from the Corporate Body of Buddha Education Foundation in Taiwan, but the BPS says it is illegal. Maybe Bhante Nyanatusita can help explain things?

          Thanks for the DPR plug - the latest version also has grammar texts, but the search engine is buggy (a fix is in the works).

          Best wishes,

          Yuttadhammo
        • Nina van Gorkom
          Dear PG Dave, Robert Kirkpatrick only has a small part on his web: http:// www.abhidhamma.org/visuddhimagga-1.htm They do not allow more on line. If you become
          Message 4 of 22 , Nov 26, 2007
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            Dear PG Dave,
            Robert Kirkpatrick only has a small part on his web: http://
            www.abhidhamma.org/visuddhimagga-1.htm

            They do not allow more on line.
            If you become a member of dhammastudygroup you can find in the
            archives: Ch XIV (about the khandhas) +Tiika summaries.
            Also we are doing now: Ch XVII, Tiika, but not yet finished. We do
            only two postings a week.
            Later on I give you more info on upaayaasa, just too busy now.
            Nina.

            Op 24-nov-2007, om 3:06 heeft P G Dave het volgende geschreven:

            > I wud like a link to Vism on the internet if available.



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Nina van Gorkom
            Dear PG Dave, you asked about upaayaasa. Meanwhile there was some correspondance, and since I could not follow it, I may repeat what you got already. Then just
            Message 5 of 22 , Nov 27, 2007
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              Dear PG Dave,
              you asked about upaayaasa.
              Meanwhile there was some correspondance, and since I could not follow
              it, I may repeat what you got already. Then just leave it.
              I found in the Co. to the Vibhanga (Second Book of Abhidhamma), the
              Sammoha vinodanii (Dispeller of Delusion Ch IV, 106 ):<Woe.
              In the exposition of woe, aayaaso (trouble) is in the sense of being
              troubled; this is a name for mental weariness which occurs in the act
              of sinking and foundering. Upaayaaso [100.22] (woe) is great trouble.
              Aayaasitatta.m (troubledness) is the state of being troubled.
              Upaayaasitatta.m (woefulness) is the state of being woeful.
              Aya.m vuccati upaayaaso (this is called woe): it is this woe that is
              being spoken of here. It has the characteristic of frustration. Its
              nature is moaning. It is manifested as dejection.>
              It is then explained that it is the basis for bodily and mental
              suffering. There is a verse:
              <Because with burning of the mind
              likewise with bodily dejection too.
              Woe produces such great suffering,
              it is itself, therefore, called suffering.>

              Nina.
            • P G Dave
              Thank you, Nina. _______________________________________ ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 28, 2007
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                Thank you, Nina.
                _______________________________________


                On 11/28/07, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear PG Dave,
                > you asked about upaayaasa.
                > Meanwhile there was some correspondance, and since I could not follow
                > it, I may repeat what you got already. Then just leave it.
                > I found in the Co. to the Vibhanga (Second Book of Abhidhamma), the
                > Sammoha vinodanii (Dispeller of Delusion Ch IV, 106 ):<Woe.
                > In the exposition of woe, aayaaso (trouble) is in the sense of being
                > troubled; this is a name for mental weariness which occurs in the act
                > of sinking and foundering. Upaayaaso [100.22] (woe) is great trouble.
                > Aayaasitatta.m (troubledness) is the state of being troubled.
                > Upaayaasitatta.m (woefulness) is the state of being woeful.
                > Aya.m vuccati upaayaaso (this is called woe): it is this woe that is
                > being spoken of here. It has the characteristic of frustration. Its
                > nature is moaning. It is manifested as dejection.>
                > It is then explained that it is the basis for bodily and mental
                > suffering. There is a verse:
                > <Because with burning of the mind
                > likewise with bodily dejection too.
                > Woe produces such great suffering,
                > it is itself, therefore, called suffering.>
                >
                > Nina.
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • DC Wijeratna
                Dear Dave, Re. Upaayaasa. The PED has a question mark regarding the derivation of this word. Here is the meaning as we understand it, in traditional Sinhala
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 2, 2007
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                  Dear Dave,
                  Re. Upaayaasa.
                  The PED has a question mark regarding the derivation of this word. Here is the meaning as we understand it, in traditional Sinhala Buddhism (Sri Lankan): The word is formed from upa + aayaasa. Upa is a prefix that gives approaching to something like in upasa"nakamati, or becoming as in upasampadaaa. So the idea is upaayaasa ia great effort, gnerally associated with pain, suffering unhappy states of mind. The most important place it occurs is in the description of the First Noble Truth. It is the great effort one makes because of dukkha, death, separation etc. For example, if a close realative dies you cry, make a big noise, sometimes you even commit suicide. So it it very intense grief with outward show. But we don't take it to refer to a mental conditions; it is the actions, the outward visible, observable actions of intense grief, that we call upaayaasa. Kind regards. Now here is a sutta reference: "katamo ca bhikkave
                  upaayaaso? yo kho bhikkhave a~n~natara~n~na vyaasanena samannaagatassa phu.t.thassa aayaaso upaayaaso aayaasitatta.m upaayaasitatta.m, aya.m vucchati bhikkave upaayaaso." Mahaasatipa.t.thaana sutta. It is the meaning of this passage I have tried to capture. I believe you can translate it yourself and get the meaning. Above passage is the Buddha's own words, and it is a strong definition. I hope this assists you. Kind regards, D. G. D. C. Wijeratna.





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