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sammaditthi

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  • mahasangha2000
    Greetings, I am new to this e-group. I am researching the concept of sammaditthi which I understand often to be translated into Right Understanding or
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 27, 2007
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      Greetings, I am new to this e-group. I am researching the concept
      of "sammaditthi" which I understand often to be translated into "Right
      Understanding" or "Right View." From the Buddha's teachings, Right
      View is often associated with the Four Noble Truths. I do not know
      Pali, and am not an etymologist or linguist. But since Pali is no
      longer a living language, I am assuming that the English meanings that
      we put onto Pali terms might have an accuracy that can be quite fluid.
      Is anyone expert enough to have comments on the range and breadth of
      possible meanings that "sammaditthi" might connote. For example, the
      translation of "samma" into "right" feels like a dualistic term that
      connotes good/evil, right/wrong, etc. that feels more like a Judeo-
      Christian interpretation—a modern mapping onto an ancient word; is
      this an appropriate interpretation? The translation of "ditthi"
      into "understanding" or "view" seems to indicate a meaning of a
      cognitive or intellectual knowledge—I am wondering if the Pali is
      indicating this, or does it mean an experiential knowledge that is
      beyond verbal concepts? Or does the Pali term indicate something else?

      Many thanks for any info that is available.
      Larry
    • DC Wijeratna
      Here are some tips: 1. Samma ditthi is the entry to the path (Fourth Noble Truth) 2. A complete description is given in MN 9. It is a good starting point. 3.
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 28, 2007
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        Here are some tips:

        1. Samma ditthi is the entry to the path (Fourth Noble Truth)

        2. A complete description is given in MN 9. It is a good starting point.

        3. It is right view or opinion in English.

        4. The word di.t.thi in Pali has to do with actual seeing (or at least the experience of seeing.

        5. Thus there are two levels of seeing-mundane and supr-mundane (for example, dibba-cakkhu)

        6. A correct understanding of this term will require a deep understanding Dhamma as give in the Pali Nikayas.

        7. If you read MN 9 you will appreciate the complexity of this concept.

        8. There is a good translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi-I think at Access-to-Insight.

        9. It may be a good idea to read the above for a start.

        With mettaa

        D. G. D. C. Wijeratna



        ----- Original Message ----
        From: mahasangha2000 <mahasangha@...>
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:28:46 PM
        Subject: [Pali] sammaditthi

        Greetings, I am new to this e-group. I am researching the concept
        of "sammaditthi" which I understand often to be translated into "Right
        Understanding" or "Right View." From the Buddha's teachings, Right
        View is often associated with the Four Noble Truths. I do not know
        Pali, and am not an etymologist or linguist. But since Pali is no
        longer a living language, I am assuming that the English meanings that
        we put onto Pali terms might have an accuracy that can be quite fluid.
        Is anyone expert enough to have comments on the range and breadth of
        possible meanings that "sammaditthi" might connote. For example, the
        translation of "samma" into "right" feels like a dualistic term that
        connotes good/evil, right/wrong, etc. that feels more like a Judeo-
        Christian interpretation� a modern mapping onto an ancient word; is
        this an appropriate interpretation? The translation of "ditthi"
        into "understanding" or "view" seems to indicate a meaning of a
        cognitive or intellectual knowledge�I am wondering if the Pali is
        indicating this, or does it mean an experiential knowledge that is
        beyond verbal concepts? Or does the Pali term indicate something else?

        Many thanks for any info that is available.
        Larry






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        Check out fun summer activities for kids.
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      • Mike Stelmach
        Below are some more tips on Sammaditthi: 1. For 21st century English, the translation of samma as right may be very misleading. Samma does not convey a
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 31, 2007
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          Below are some more tips on Sammaditthi:

          1. For 21st century English, the translation of "samma" as "right" may be
          very misleading. Samma does not convey a sense of right/wrong, good/evil as
          mentioned.
          It seems "samma" means, that which keeps one on the path of:
          a) staying happy,
          b) not harming oneself,
          c) not harming others,
          d) not harming the environment or not harming the cosmos, and
          e) purifying ones mind of impurities (sankharas).
          This is a long-winded way of saying that "samma" means, that which keeps one
          on the path toward full enlightenment.

          2. There is nothing "wrong" with choosing a non-samma path. However, one
          should realize that a different path may lead one toward:
          a) unhappiness,
          b) harming oneself,
          c) harming others,
          d) harming the environment/cosmos, or
          e) harming ones own mind by creating more impurities in ones own mind,

          3. A translation of "sammaditthi" as "effective understanding" or "skillful
          understanding" might be more appropriate for 21st Century English.

          4. Sammaditthi is an advanced concept. To truly understand the concept of
          sammaditthi is to become a fully enlightened being.

          5. Sammaditthi includes a complete understanding of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and
          4th noble truths (1st=Dukkhasaccaniddeso, 2nd=Samudayasaccaniddeso,
          3rd=Nirodhasaccaniddeso, 4th=Maggasaccaniddeso)

          6. In the Mahasatipatthana Sutta the historic Buddha focuses on the
          following points in describing sammaditthi:

          a) Dukkhe nanam - includes a complete understanding of the 1st noble truth,
          - this is an understanding of dukkha. It is explained in the
          Dukkhasaccaniddeso section of the Mahasatipatthana Sutta)

          NOTE: Dukkha is very difficult to translate. Some translate dukkha
          as suffering. Another translation of dukkha could include:
          anger, hatred, depression, angst, grief, distress, clinging,
          longing, fear, sorrow, mourning, sorrowfulness, lust,
          jealously, sloth, torpor, resentment, revenge, hopelessness,
          deep inward woe, deep lamentation, deep wailing, weltsmertz,
          mental pain, mental distress and all other related
          emotions.

          b) Dukkha samudaye nanam - includes a complete understanding of the 2nd
          noble truth, - this is an understanding of how dukkha begins or arises. It
          is explained in the Samudayasaccaniddeso section of the Mahasatipatthana
          Sutta)

          c) Dukkha nirodhe nanam - includes a complete understanding of the 3rd noble
          truth, - this is an understanding of how dukkha is totally eliminated from
          ones mind so it will never begin again. It is explained in the
          Nirodhasaccaniddeso section of the Mahasatipatthana Sutta)

          d) Dukkhanirodhagaminiya patipadaya nanam - includes a complete
          understanding of the 4th noble truth or the 8-fold noble path, - this is an
          understanding of the path that will purify ones mind and lead toward full
          enlightenment. It is explained in the Maggasaccaniddeso section of the
          Mahasatipatthana Sutta.

          NOTE: Sammaditthi is small subsection of the Maggasaccaniddeso
          section in the Mahasatipatthana Sutta. Studying this
          relationship will reveal an interesting form of recursive
          speaking that is common to many of the lectures/discourses
          of the historic Buddha.

          7. The Mahasatipatthana Sutta is the longest and most detailed
          lecture/discourse the historic Buddha gave on how walk the path toward full
          enlightenment.

          With kind regards,

          Mike Stelmach

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DC
          Wijeratna
          Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:26 AM
          To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Pali] sammaditthi

          Here are some tips:

          1. Samma ditthi is the entry to the path (Fourth Noble Truth)

          2. A complete description is given in MN 9. It is a good starting point.

          3. It is right view or opinion in English.

          4. The word di.t.thi in Pali has to do with actual seeing (or at least the
          experience of seeing.

          5. Thus there are two levels of seeing-mundane and supr-mundane (for
          example, dibba-cakkhu)

          6. A correct understanding of this term will require a deep understanding
          Dhamma as give in the Pali Nikayas.

          7. If you read MN 9 you will appreciate the complexity of this concept.

          8. There is a good translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi-I think at
          Access-to-Insight.

          9. It may be a good idea to read the above for a start.

          With mettaa

          D. G. D. C. Wijeratna



          ----- Original Message ----
          From: mahasangha2000 <mahasangha@...>
          To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:28:46 PM
          Subject: [Pali] sammaditthi

          Greetings, I am new to this e-group. I am researching the concept
          of "sammaditthi" which I understand often to be translated into "Right
          Understanding" or "Right View." From the Buddha's teachings, Right
          View is often associated with the Four Noble Truths. I do not know
          Pali, and am not an etymologist or linguist. But since Pali is no
          longer a living language, I am assuming that the English meanings that
          we put onto Pali terms might have an accuracy that can be quite fluid.
          Is anyone expert enough to have comments on the range and breadth of
          possible meanings that "sammaditthi" might connote. For example, the
          translation of "samma" into "right" feels like a dualistic term that
          connotes good/evil, right/wrong, etc. that feels more like a Judeo-
          Christian interpretation- a modern mapping onto an ancient word; is
          this an appropriate interpretation? The translation of "ditthi"
          into "understanding" or "view" seems to indicate a meaning of a
          cognitive or intellectual knowledge-I am wondering if the Pali is
          indicating this, or does it mean an experiential knowledge that is
          beyond verbal concepts? Or does the Pali term indicate something else?

          Many thanks for any info that is available.
          Larry






          ____________________________________________________________________________
          ________
          Got a little couch potato?
          Check out fun summer activities for kids.
          http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&c
          s=bz

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        • Kumaara Bhikkhu
          I agree that right is not the best translation for samma . It s rather stuck though. :-) For samma , I prefer perfect, complete, full, etc. just as in
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 1, 2007
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            I agree that 'right' is not the best translation for 'samma'. It's rather stuck though. :-)

            For 'samma', I prefer perfect, complete, full, etc.
            just as in sammaasambuddha: perfectly, completely, or fully self-enlightened one.

            kb

            mahasangha2000 wrote thus at 02:58 PM 28-08-07:
            >Greetings, I am new to this e-group. I am researching the concept
            >of "sammaditthi" which I understand often to be translated into "Right
            >Understanding" or "Right View." From the Buddha's teachings, Right
            >View is often associated with the Four Noble Truths. I do not know
            >Pali, and am not an etymologist or linguist. But since Pali is no
            >longer a living language, I am assuming that the English meanings that
            >we put onto Pali terms might have an accuracy that can be quite fluid.
            >Is anyone expert enough to have comments on the range and breadth of
            >possible meanings that "sammaditthi" might connote. For example, the
            >translation of "samma" into "right" feels like a dualistic term that
            >connotes good/evil, right/wrong, etc. that feels more like a Judeo-
            >Christian interpretation—a modern mapping onto an ancient word; is
            >this an appropriate interpretation? The translation of "ditthi"
            >into "understanding" or "view" seems to indicate a meaning of a
            >cognitive or intellectual knowledge—I am wondering if the Pali is
            >indicating this, or does it mean an experiential knowledge that is
            >beyond verbal concepts? Or does the Pali term indicate something else?
            >
            >Many thanks for any info that is available.
            >Larry
          • Gunnar Gällmo
            ... As sammaa is in some texts opposed to micchaa - e. g. micchaa-di.t.thi, wrong view , and so on with the other factors of the path - I think it does indeed
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 1, 2007
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              --- Mike Stelmach <mfstelmach@...> skrev:

              > Below are some more tips on Sammaditthi:
              >
              > 1. For 21st century English, the translation of
              > "samma" as "right" may be
              > very misleading. Samma does not convey a sense of
              > right/wrong, good/evil as
              > mentioned.

              As sammaa is in some texts opposed to micchaa - e. g.
              micchaa-di.t.thi, "wrong view", and so on with the
              other factors of the path - I think it does indeed
              convey "a sense of right/wrong", although other
              meanings may also be included.

              Gunnar

              http://metrobloggen.se/esperanto





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            • DC Wijeratna
              Here are some more thoughs on samma. 1. The basic sense of sammaa comes from the prefix sa or sam 2. Sa is derived from sad or sat meaning true; real and
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 2, 2007
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                Here are some more thoughs on samma.

                1. The basic sense of sammaa comes from the prefix 'sa' or 'sam'

                2. Sa is derived from sad or sat meaning true; real and the other meaning is 'one's own'

                3. Thus the meaning of samma in the most general sense is true and false

                4. In English there are many ways of representing this. True, False, Right, Wrong, Complete, incomplete and 1 and zero, What belongs to one what does not belong to you and so on; the collection and what is not the collection

                5. In Buddhism, samma is used virtually all the above senses.

                6. The shade of meaning that has to be used has to be determined from the context.

                7. Words have meanings only within a context

                8. Usage in Dhamma can be broadly classified under: real and unreal (ontological), right and wrong (ethical) or skilful and unskilful

                9. The Sanskrit equivalent of sammaa is 'samyak'

                10. Meanings are given in Monier Williams

                With Metta

                D. C. Wijeratna

                D. G. D. C. Wijeratna



                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Gunnar Gällmo <gunnargallmo@...>
                To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 5:44:06 PM
                Subject: SV: RE: [Pali] sammaditthi

                --- Mike Stelmach <mfstelmach@ieee. org> skrev:

                > Below are some more tips on Sammaditthi:
                >
                > 1. For 21st century English, the translation of
                > "samma" as "right" may be
                > very misleading. Samma does not convey a sense of
                > right/wrong, good/evil as
                > mentioned.

                As sammaa is in some texts opposed to micchaa - e. g.
                micchaa-di.t. thi, "wrong view", and so on with the
                other factors of the path - I think it does indeed
                convey "a sense of right/wrong" , although other
                meanings may also be included.

                Gunnar

                http://metrobloggen .se/esperanto




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              • Ong Yong Peng
                Dear Larry and friends, what I understand is that the N8P (Noble Eightfold Path) transcends right and wrong. It is often known to be aryan or noble. On the
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 3, 2007
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                  Dear Larry and friends,

                  what I understand is that the N8P (Noble Eightfold Path) transcends
                  right and wrong. It is often known to be aryan or noble. On the
                  practicality of N8P, it avoids the extremes, it is neither "left" nor
                  "right", but "middle", hence it is also known as the Middle Way.
                  However, that is when the entire N8P is taken as a whole.

                  When we break it into components, such as "sammaditthi", 'right' is a
                  good translation for 'sammaa', as Gunnar has explained.

                  metta,
                  Yong Peng.


                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, mahasangha2000 wrote:

                  I am researching the concept of "sammaditthi" which I understand often
                  to be translated into "Right Understanding" or "Right View."
                • joseph
                  ... rather stuck though. :-) ... enlightened one. ... Hello friends Samma and the idea of the wholesome is off course, in our case, the Indian thought
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 21, 2007
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                    --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumaara Bhikkhu <yg@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I agree that 'right' is not the best translation for 'samma'. It's
                    rather stuck though. :-)
                    >
                    > For 'samma', I prefer perfect, complete, full, etc.
                    > just as in sammaasambuddha: perfectly, completely, or fully self-
                    enlightened one.
                    >
                    Hello friends
                    Samma and the idea of the wholesome is off course, in our case, the
                    Indian thought expression.
                    Now there is an emphasis not on originality or subjective
                    interpretation of what is right or even of what is the path, but an
                    exact confrontation with the reality of one's approach which (and it
                    will sound strange to western ears), consists of the key
                    word `conformity'.
                    That is one finds exactly the same moral and
                    psychological `perfection',
                    The same understanding, the same Dhamma.

                    Although the twentieth centaury taught us the dangers of `blind
                    obeisance', we must bear in mind the context of a life of a Bhikkhu,
                    and the utter dismissal of any other kind of identification, most
                    notably the complete absence of any national or group preference
                    apart being a follower of the Buddha,
                    Seems that there is an enormous amount of transparency in everything
                    we think nowadays.
                    I do believe the same goes for the lay followers as well.
                    I may sound tedious, but
                    About two years back mentioned the subject and, again ,
                    conforming, the 'same' in the Indian context does mean perfecting as
                    the path is found'
                    so the SammaSambudho' 'matches the requirements of the lineage of the
                    Buddha, just as the path limbs are exact, complete, special
                    phenomena, see the 'forty' in the lesson of the great forty'
                    MahaCatarisakaSutta'.

                    Metta
                    Bhikkhu Jothiko
                  • joseph
                    ... Hello friends 1. the path must begin with a tandem development of mundane right view which include good Kamma, I guess as merit making and right intention
                    Message 9 of 9 , Oct 13, 2007
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                      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <pali.smith@...> wrote:
                      > what I understand is that the N8P (Noble Eightfold Path) transcends
                      > right and wrong.

                      Hello friends

                      1. the path must begin with a tandem development of mundane right
                      view
                      which include good Kamma, I guess as merit making and right
                      intention including Metta = friendship.

                      it all seems to me to suggest goodness, even reading Metta as
                      nothing different than 'love your friend as yourself'.
                      if it doesnt ring well,
                      there's 'the lesson on the similie of the saw' KakucupamaSutta'
                      which may also serve as a definition of how by 'taking care of
                      others,
                      one takes care of himself',
                      if it all sound as the religeon you have tried to avoid as
                      hypocratic,
                      please remember that 'any religeon
                      that include the eight fold path is a good religeon'

                      2. there's an article by J.R. Carter: 'beyond 'beyond good and evil''
                      in Buddhist Studies -SaddhaTissa memorial 84,
                      where he analyses this expression.
                      a notable feature in the article is the distinction, based on a
                      quote of Prof. Pemasiri, between Kussala and Punna,
                      mainly that an Arahat will neither
                      generate merit= punna even by good deeds,
                      nor can path attainment be conceived directly
                      as an intended result = vipaka.
                      but the wholesome =kussala certainly serves as a definition.
                      the article conclude that , indeed, it is more of a difficulty of
                      english language and western tradition then a theravada one.
                      it is dangerous to separate the Blessed one and the Dhamma from a
                      notion of goodness.

                      Metta
                      Jothiko Bhikkhu
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