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Re: Soul {Re: [Pali] Re: Meaning of Dhamma}

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  • Kumaara Bhikkhu
    Good find, Dmytro. Based on the description below, what they call jiiva seems to be a combination of non-kaaya khandhas, while their atma (which is of
    Message 1 of 34 , Aug 26, 2007
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      Good find, Dmytro.

      Based on the description below, what they call "jiiva" seems to be a combination of non-kaaya khandhas, while their "atma" (which is of course atta in Pali) seems to be what we call "viññaana", consciousness.

      So if we were to discuss with them and say that there's no jiiva, they would find it very odd. It's like saying at least some of non-kaaya khandhas don't exist.

      So rather than to say that there's no soul or jiiva—or atma in the way they understand it—we can just say that our teachers taught us that they are anicca, dukkha, anatta.

      kb

      Dmytro Ivakhnenko wrote thus at 04:55 PM 26-08-07:
      >Hello,
      >
      >> I have found some information about dhamma which I thought would be of some
      >> use to the present discussion.
      >>
      >> 1. A book on the subject is John Ross Carter, Dhamma. Discusses the concept
      >> from every conceivable angle.
      >
      >The link to article by John Ross Carter is the first one given in the
      >reference I posted recently:
      >
      >http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=20247
      >
      >'Jiva' is originally a Jain term. Thus by mentioning 'jiva' Buddha
      >referred to Jain (Niggantha) beliefs of his time.
      >
      >"In Hinduism and Jainism, a jiva is the immortal essence of a living
      >being, subject to maya. A jiva that is free of maya, i.e. is not tied
      >to a body or earthly existence in any way, is called ãtmã .
      >The vedic concept of jiva is analogous, but by no means identical, to
      >the concept of soul as presented in abrahamic religions, and the
      >Sanskrit word "jiva" is therefore best left untranslated."
      >
      >See: http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Jiva.htm
      >
      >With metta, Dmytro
    • Kumaara Bhikkhu
      Good find, Dmytro. Based on the description below, what they call jiiva seems to be a combination of non-kaaya khandhas, while their atma (which is of
      Message 34 of 34 , Aug 26, 2007
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        Good find, Dmytro.

        Based on the description below, what they call "jiiva" seems to be a combination of non-kaaya khandhas, while their "atma" (which is of course atta in Pali) seems to be what we call "viññaana", consciousness.

        So if we were to discuss with them and say that there's no jiiva, they would find it very odd. It's like saying at least some of non-kaaya khandhas don't exist.

        So rather than to say that there's no soul or jiiva—or atma in the way they understand it—we can just say that our teachers taught us that they are anicca, dukkha, anatta.

        kb

        Dmytro Ivakhnenko wrote thus at 04:55 PM 26-08-07:
        >Hello,
        >
        >> I have found some information about dhamma which I thought would be of some
        >> use to the present discussion.
        >>
        >> 1. A book on the subject is John Ross Carter, Dhamma. Discusses the concept
        >> from every conceivable angle.
        >
        >The link to article by John Ross Carter is the first one given in the
        >reference I posted recently:
        >
        >http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=20247
        >
        >'Jiva' is originally a Jain term. Thus by mentioning 'jiva' Buddha
        >referred to Jain (Niggantha) beliefs of his time.
        >
        >"In Hinduism and Jainism, a jiva is the immortal essence of a living
        >being, subject to maya. A jiva that is free of maya, i.e. is not tied
        >to a body or earthly existence in any way, is called ãtmã .
        >The vedic concept of jiva is analogous, but by no means identical, to
        >the concept of soul as presented in abrahamic religions, and the
        >Sanskrit word "jiva" is therefore best left untranslated."
        >
        >See: http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Jiva.htm
        >
        >With metta, Dmytro
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