- Thank you Robert and everyone for your contributions to the sugato,
tathaagato translation debate.
I am personnally accustomed to the litteral "well-gone", which has a poetic
savour in it (le voyage...).
As for Tathaagato, of course I do not want to reopen an old discussion (see
Buddhaghosha...) but it's "thus gone" as well as "thus come". The litteral
meanings and inherent polysemy of this word gives it a mysterious and
rather feline flavour...
Dr Gabriel Jivasattha Bittar
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 16:40:17 +0000
From: Robert Eddison <robedd@...>
Subject: Re: 'Sugata' (was: MN 62: Mahaaraahulovaada sutta.m 
Yong Peng wrote:
>However, after consideration, I suggest that we keep theI'm happy with 'the Sugata'. But if there needs to be a vote, these are the
>word 'Sugata' and give it a good footnote. The views that were given
>are all good. They neither distort the original teaching nor diminish
>the honour of the Buddha, and they come from reputable sources. So, I
>suggest that we put them all into the footnote.
>If there is any objection, we will take a vote using the Polls
>facility provided by Yahoo! Groups.
>Please give your opinions.
common renderings that come to mind:
Group I (transliterations)
the Sugato (using the nominative form seems to be the norm among scholars
from France, Germany & Eastern Europe)
the Sugat (common in Indian Ambedkarite works and some 19th century British
Group II (emphasis on the '-gata')
the Well-gone One.
the Well-farer (Rhys Davids, Woodward, Horner, Walshe, Norman.
Most common PTS rendering).
the one who has walked the path (Ven. Ananda B. Metteyya. Probably wouldn't
work too well in the vocative case!)
Group III (emphasis on the 'su-')
the Sublime One (~Naa.namoli)
the Felicitous One (Thomas Cleary)
the Fortunate One (Bodhi)
the Auspicious One (Childers, Ven. Naarada)
the Blest One (Childers)
the Happy One
the Blissful One
Jacqueline "Gotamî Jîvarakkhî" Bittar
Dr Gabriel "Ananda Jîvasattha" Bittar,
PhD University of Geneva
phone +61 8 8553 7442 , fax +61 8 8553 7444
mob. ph. +61 4 2743 5148
Institut Suisse de Bioinformatique
Swiss Institute of Bioinformatics
À Bientôt Seayu Lodge, http://www.seayu.com
4/5 Warawee road / 34 Falie court
PO box 281, American River, Kangaroo Island
South Australia 5221
GMT +9h30 (allow for +1h when "summer time" in SA)
a'niccâ vata san'khârâ
( a'niccaa vata san'khaaraa )
"impermanent are structural processes"
"instables sont les flux structurels"
Siddhârtha (Siddhaartha) Gautama Buddha
- Dear Nina and friends,
thanks a lot for your help, Nina. I have done the compilation and it
is now available here:
--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, nina van gorkom wrote:
> > For "tejo", would you say that "fire" is a better word
that "heat" as Buddhadatta explains tejodhaatu as the element of heat?
> N: The element of fire represents the characteristic of heat,
manifesting itself as heat or cold. Cold: a matter of degree of this
element. It is experienced through the bodysense, also the internal
heat. Rahula had to know both the internal and external heat, so that
he would know: internal or external, it is the same, just an element,
and this would help him to be less attached to attabhaava, the body.
> Since Fire is more symbolic, I am inclined to the word heat or
> But temperature may be controversial.
> > Y: Do you think that we can make use of parenthesis in this case
to give the exploded meaning of the Pali term, such as whereby (one)
is heated, and whereby (one) is digested (, aged and consumed)
> N: one is not digested, but the food, that what is eaten, is
digested. The food is consumed. But the body is aging by the element
of heat. Thus, this way may not be so satisfactory.