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sugato, tathaagato

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  • Buddhayatana
    Thank you Robert and everyone for your contributions to the sugato, tathaagato translation debate. I am personnally accustomed to the litteral well-gone ,
    Message 1 of 70 , Sep 3, 2002
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      Thank you Robert and everyone for your contributions to the sugato,
      tathaagato translation debate.

      I am personnally accustomed to the litteral "well-gone", which has a poetic
      savour in it (le voyage...).

      As for Tathaagato, of course I do not want to reopen an old discussion (see
      Buddhaghosha...) but it's "thus gone" as well as "thus come". The litteral
      meanings and inherent polysemy of this word gives it a mysterious and
      rather feline flavour...

      Metta-cittena,

      Dr Gabriel Jivasattha Bittar


      Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 16:40:17 +0000
      From: Robert Eddison <robedd@...>
      Subject: Re: 'Sugata' (was: MN 62: Mahaaraahulovaada sutta.m [4]

      Yong Peng wrote:

      >However, after consideration, I suggest that we keep the
      >word 'Sugata' and give it a good footnote. The views that were given
      >are all good. They neither distort the original teaching nor diminish
      >the honour of the Buddha, and they come from reputable sources. So, I
      >suggest that we put them all into the footnote.
      >
      >If there is any objection, we will take a vote using the Polls
      >facility provided by Yahoo! Groups.
      >
      >Please give your opinions.

      I'm happy with 'the Sugata'. But if there needs to be a vote, these are the
      common renderings that come to mind:

      Group I (transliterations)

      the Sugata

      the Sugato (using the nominative form seems to be the norm among scholars
      from France, Germany & Eastern Europe)

      the Sugat (common in Indian Ambedkarite works and some 19th century British
      translations)

      Group II (emphasis on the '-gata')

      the Well-gone.
      the Well-gone One.
      the Wayfarer.
      the Well-farer (Rhys Davids, Woodward, Horner, Walshe, Norman.
      Most common PTS rendering).
      the one who has walked the path (Ven. Ananda B. Metteyya. Probably wouldn't
      work too well in the vocative case!)

      Group III (emphasis on the 'su-')

      the Sublime One (~Naa.namoli)
      the Felicitous One (Thomas Cleary)
      the Fortunate One (Bodhi)
      the Auspicious One (Childers, Ven. Naarada)
      the Blest One (Childers)
      the Happy One
      the Blissful One

      Best wishes,

      Robert


      --------------------------------------------------
      Jacqueline "Gotamî Jîvarakkhî" Bittar
      Dr Gabriel "Ananda Jîvasattha" Bittar,
      PhD University of Geneva
      phone +61 8 8553 7442 , fax +61 8 8553 7444
      mob. ph. +61 4 2743 5148

      Institut Suisse de Bioinformatique
      Swiss Institute of Bioinformatics
      http://www.isb-sib.ch/DEA/plan_etudes.html
      email: bittar@...

      À Bientôt Seayu Lodge, http://www.seayu.com
      email: bittar@...

      Buddhâyatana, http://www.buddhayatana.org
      email: buddhayatana@...

      4/5 Warawee road / 34 Falie court
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      a'niccâ vata san'khârâ
      ( a'niccaa vata san'khaaraa )
      "impermanent are structural processes"
      "instables sont les flux structurels"
      Siddhârtha (Siddhaartha) Gautama Buddha
      ---------------------------------------------------
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Nina and friends, thanks a lot for your help, Nina. I have done the compilation and it is now available here:
      Message 70 of 70 , Mar 16, 2003
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        Dear Nina and friends,

        thanks a lot for your help, Nina. I have done the compilation and it
        is now available here:
        http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/strans/stransload.php?page=mn062s04

        metta,
        Yong Peng

        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, nina van gorkom wrote:
        > > For "tejo", would you say that "fire" is a better word
        that "heat" as Buddhadatta explains tejodhaatu as the element of heat?
        > N: The element of fire represents the characteristic of heat,
        manifesting itself as heat or cold. Cold: a matter of degree of this
        element. It is experienced through the bodysense, also the internal
        heat. Rahula had to know both the internal and external heat, so that
        he would know: internal or external, it is the same, just an element,
        and this would help him to be less attached to attabhaava, the body.
        > Since Fire is more symbolic, I am inclined to the word heat or
        temperature.
        > But temperature may be controversial.
        >
        > > Y: Do you think that we can make use of parenthesis in this case
        to give the exploded meaning of the Pali term, such as whereby (one)
        is heated, and whereby (one) is digested (, aged and consumed)
        > N: one is not digested, but the food, that what is eaten, is
        digested. The food is consumed. But the body is aging by the element
        of heat. Thus, this way may not be so satisfactory.
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