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nibbaana

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  • Yufen Shih
    Dear friends, Dhamma greetings. Could someone help to explain saupaadisesa-nibbaana, anupaadisesa-nibbaana? Seems there are different
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 3, 2002
      Dear friends,
      Dhamma greetings.

      Could someone help to explain saupaadisesa-nibbaana, anupaadisesa-nibbaana?
      Seems there are different interpretations/explanations of the terms.

      Also, is there any reference about Sotapanna experience nibbaana?
      Thanks a lot in advance.

      Virtually with real metta,
      yufen



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lennart Lopin
      Dear Yufen,I got these passages from Ven. K. Nananandas works, which are very enlightening when it comes to such difficult terms. Hope these quotes are not
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 3, 2002
        Dear Yufen,

        I got these passages from Ven. K. Nananandas works, which are very
        enlightening when it comes to such difficult terms. Hope these quotes are
        not too long for your short question:




        Now there is this term SA - UPAADISESA NIBBAANA DHAATU. Tak­ing the
        term at its face value, some might think that the clinging is not yet over
        for the arahants - that there is still a little bit left. The ara­hant,
        though he has attained release and realized Nib­bàna, so long as he is
        living in the world, has to relate to the ex­ternal objects in the world
        somehow through his five senses, making use of them. Seeing it, some might
        conclude that it is because of some residual clinging. But we have to
        un­derstand this in the light of the simile of the worn-out skin. In the
        case of the arahant, too, the sloughed off skin is still hanging on.

        As a sidelight we may cite a remark of Venerable Sàriputta: Iminà påtikàyena
        aññiyàmi haràyàmi jigucchàmi. "I am har­assed and repelled by this body, I
        am ashamed of it". This is be­cause the body is for him something already
        abandoned. All this goes to show that the arahant has an unattached,
        unclinging at­titude.

        Linguistic usage, which is a special feature of existence, is enli­vened by
        the cravings, conceits, and views with which it is grasped. Worldlings
        thrive on it, whereas the arahants are free from it. This is the upshot of
        the above discussion on the terms anusaya and nis­saya.





        ON THE STREAM-ENTERER:



        Though it may be so in the case of the Arahant, what about the
        stream-winner, the sotàpanna, one may ask. There is a gen­eral belief that
        in the case of a sotàpanna the vision of Nibbàna is like a glimpse of a
        distant lamp on a road with many bends and the sotà­panna has just
        negotiated the first bend.

        But in accordance with the Dhamma it may be said that the norm of immediacy
        is applicable even to the knowledge of the first path. One who attains to
        the fruit of stream-winning may be a beggar, an illiterate person, or a
        seven year old child. It may be that he has heard the Dhamma for the first
        time. All the same, a long line of epithets is used with reference to him in
        the suttas as his qualifications: Diñ­ñhadhammo pattadhammo viditadhammo
        pariyogàëhadhammo tiõõa­vicikiccho vigatakathaükatho vesàraj­jap­patto
        aparappaccayo sat­thusàsane.

        Diññhadhammo, he is one who has seen the Dhamma, the truth of Nibbàna. It is
        said in the Ratanasutta that along with the vision of the first path, three
        fetters are abandoned, namely sak­kàyadiññhi, the self-hood view,
        vicikicchà, sceptical doubt, and sãlabbataparàmàsa, attachment to holy vows
        and ascetic prac­tices. Some might argue that only these fetters are
        abandoned at this stage, because it is a glimpse of Nibbàna from a distance.
        But then there is this second epithet, pattadhammo, which means that he has
        reached the Dham­ma, that he has arrived at Nibbàna. Not only that, he is
        vidi­ta­dham­mo, he is one who has understood the Dhamma, which is

        Nibbàna. He is pariyogàëha­dhammo, he has plunged into the Dhamma, he has
        dived into the Dhamma, which is Nibbàna. He is tiõõavicikiccho, he has
        crossed over doubts. Vigatakathaükatho, his waverings are gone.
        Vesàrajjappatto, he has attained to proficiency. Aparappac­cayo
        sat­thusàsane, in regard to the dispensation of the teacher he is not
        de­pendent on others. And that is to say that he could at­tain to Nib­bàna
        even without another's help, though of course with the teacher's help he
        would attain it sooner.

        So this string of epithets testifies to the efficacy of the realiza­tion by
        the first path. It is not a mere glimpse of Nibbàna from a distance. It is a
        reaching, an arrival or a plunge into Nibbàna. For purposes of illustration
        we may bring in a legend connected with the history of Sri Lanka. It is said
        that when King Gajabàhu invaded India, one of his soldiers, Nãla, who had
        Herculean strength, parted the seawater with a huge iron bar in order to
        make way for the king and the army. Now when the supramun­dane path arises
        in the mind the power of thought is as mighty as the blow of Nãla with his
        iron bar. Even with the first blow the sea-water parted, so that one could
        see the bot­tom. Similarly the sweeping influxes are parted for a moment
        when the transcen­dental path arises in a mind, enabling one to see the very
        bot­tom - Nibbàna. In other words, all preparations (saïkhàras) are sti­lled
        for a moment, enabling one to see the cessation of prepara­tions.


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      • frank kuan
        ... Wow, that s a brain twister. Does that mean: 1) resembling metta, but not really metta? 2) real metta delivered through cyberspace medium? 3) a play on the
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 4, 2002
          --- Yufen Shih <shih@...> wrote:
          > Virtually with real metta,
          > yufen

          Wow, that's a brain twister. Does that mean:
          1) resembling metta, but not really metta?
          2) real metta delivered through cyberspace medium?
          3) a play on the ultimate empty nature of metta?
          4) ostensibly signed with metta? but unspecified citta
          and sankhara motives?


          mo betta metta via dialup internetta,
          -fk


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