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Re: Suttanta

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Johnny, I believe suttanta = suttan-ta sutta.m + ta (or taa?) However, I can be wrong. metta, Yong Peng. ... The word Suttanta seems to be composed of
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 20, 2007
      Dear Johnny,

      I believe suttanta = suttan-ta > sutta.m + ta (or taa?)

      However, I can be wrong.

      metta,
      Yong Peng.


      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, johnny pruitt wrote:

      The word Suttanta seems to be composed of two words Sutta and Anta.
      when put together their meaning seems to be the "end of the sutta". Is
      this correct and what does this mean?.
    • Ole Holten Pind
      Dear friends, suttanta is derived from sutta + anta. anta end apparently functions as a semantically neutral suffix, cf. kammanta action, act, from kamma
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 20, 2007
        Dear friends,

        suttanta is derived from sutta + anta. anta "end" apparently functions as a
        semantically neutral suffix, cf. kammanta "action, act," from kamma + anta.
        In the Pali canon sutta denotes the Patimokkha, unlike the suttantas viz.
        the doctrinal parts of the canon. This distinction is corroborated in by
        the canon itself.

        Regards,
        Ole Holten Pind

        _____

        Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Ong Yong
        Peng
        Sendt: 20. juni 2007 15:38
        Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Emne: [Pali] Re: Suttanta



        Dear Johnny,

        I believe suttanta = suttan-ta > sutta.m + ta (or taa?)

        However, I can be wrong.

        metta,
        Yong Peng.

        --- In Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com, johnny pruitt
        wrote:

        The word Suttanta seems to be composed of two words Sutta and Anta.
        when put together their meaning seems to be the "end of the sutta". Is
        this correct and what does this mean?.






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ong Yong Peng
        Dear Ole, thanks for the clarification. metta, Yong Peng. ... suttanta is derived from sutta + anta. anta end apparently functions as a semantically neutral
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 20, 2007
          Dear Ole,

          thanks for the clarification.

          metta,
          Yong Peng.


          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ole Holten Pind wrote:

          suttanta is derived from sutta + anta. anta "end" apparently
          functions as a semantically neutral suffix, cf. kammanta "action,
          act," from kamma + anta. In the Pali canon sutta denotes the
          Patimokkha, unlike the suttantas viz. the doctrinal parts of the
          canon. This distinction is corroborated in by the canon itself.
        • Nina van Gorkom
          Dear Ole, I find this very interesting. If you have time could you mention where we can find this distinction? Thank you. Nina. ... [Non-text portions of this
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 21, 2007
            Dear Ole,
            I find this very interesting. If you have time could you mention
            where we can find this distinction? Thank you.
            Nina.
            >
            > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ole Holten Pind wrote:
            >
            > suttanta is derived from sutta + anta. anta "end" apparently
            > functions as a semantically neutral suffix, cf. kammanta "action,
            > act," from kamma + anta. In the Pali canon sutta denotes the
            > Patimokkha, unlike the suttantas viz. the doctrinal parts of the
            > canon. This distinction is corroborated in by the canon itself.
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • johnny pruitt
            Dear Nina and Pali group What is the difference between the suttanta method of enumeration and the abhidhamma method of enumeration. Mettacittena Johnny Pruitt
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 21, 2007
              Dear Nina and Pali group
              What is the difference between the suttanta method of enumeration and the abhidhamma method of enumeration.

              Mettacittena
              Johnny Pruitt

              Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote: Dear Ole,
              I find this very interesting. If you have time could you mention
              where we can find this distinction? Thank you.
              Nina.
              >
              > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ole Holten Pind wrote:
              >
              > suttanta is derived from sutta + anta. anta "end" apparently
              > functions as a semantically neutral suffix, cf. kammanta "action,
              > act," from kamma + anta. In the Pali canon sutta denotes the
              > Patimokkha, unlike the suttantas viz. the doctrinal parts of the
              > canon. This distinction is corroborated in by the canon itself.
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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            • Ole Holten Pind
              _____ Fra: Pa Dear Nina, You find sutta mentioned as a literary category e.g. at Majjhima I 133: sutta.m, geyya.m, veyyaakara.na.m, gaatha.m, udaana.m,
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 22, 2007
                _____

                Fra: Pa

                Dear Nina,

                You find sutta mentioned as a literary category e.g. at Majjhima I 133:
                sutta.m, geyya.m, veyyaakara.na.m, gaatha.m, udaana.m, itivuttaka.m,
                jaataka.m, abbhutadhamma.m, vedalla.m.

                Ole Holten Pind


                Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@xs4all. <mailto:vangorko%40xs4all.nl> nl> wrote:
                Dear Ole,
                I find this very interesting. If you have time could you mention
                where we can find this distinction? Thank you.
                Nina.
                >
                > --- In Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com, Ole Holten
                Pind wrote:
                >
                > suttanta is derived from sutta + anta. anta "end" apparently
                > functions as a semantically neutral suffix, cf. kammanta "action,
                > act," from kamma + anta. In the Pali canon sutta denotes the
                > Patimokkha, unlike the suttantas viz. the doctrinal parts of the
                > canon. This distinction is corroborated in by the canon itself.
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nina van Gorkom
                Dear Ole, thank you very much. How is the connection with the Patimokkha? Nina. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 22, 2007
                  Dear Ole,
                  thank you very much. How is the connection with the Patimokkha?
                  Nina.
                  Op 22-jun-2007, om 15:38 heeft Ole Holten Pind het volgende geschreven:

                  > You find sutta mentioned as a literary category e.g. at Majjhima I
                  > 133:
                  > sutta.m, geyya.m, veyyaakara.na.m, gaatha.m, udaana.m, itivuttaka.m,
                  > jaataka.m, abbhutadhamma.m, vedalla.m.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ole Holten Pind
                  Patimokkha is the only sutta style text in the Pali canon, cf., for instance, the first paacittiya sutta sampajaanamusaavaade paacittiyan ti Ole Holten Pind
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 22, 2007
                    Patimokkha is the only sutta style text in the Pali canon, cf., for
                    instance, the first paacittiya sutta sampajaanamusaavaade paacittiyan ti

                    Ole Holten Pind

                    _____

                    Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Nina van
                    Gorkom
                    Sendt: 22. juni 2007 15:53
                    Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                    Emne: Re: SV: SV: [Pali] Re: Suttanta



                    Dear Ole,
                    thank you very much. How is the connection with the Patimokkha?
                    Nina.
                    Op 22-jun-2007, om 15:38 heeft Ole Holten Pind het volgende geschreven:

                    > You find sutta mentioned as a literary category e.g. at Majjhima I
                    > 133:
                    > sutta.m, geyya.m, veyyaakara.na.m, gaatha.m, udaana.m, itivuttaka.m,
                    > jaataka.m, abbhutadhamma.m, vedalla.m.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Nina van Gorkom
                    Dear Ole, thank you very much. I shall study this text, Nina. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 22, 2007
                      Dear Ole,
                      thank you very much. I shall study this text,
                      Nina.
                      Op 22-jun-2007, om 17:06 heeft Ole Holten Pind het volgende geschreven:

                      > Patimokkha is the only sutta style text in the Pali canon, cf., for
                      > instance, the first paacittiya sutta sampajaanamusaavaade
                      > paacittiyan ti



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Nina van Gorkom
                      Dear Johnny, In the Suttanta we read that the Buddha explained the Dhamma to different people at different places and adapted his way of explanation to the
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 23, 2007
                        Dear Johnny,
                        In the Suttanta we read that the Buddha explained the Dhamma to
                        different people at different places and adapted his way of
                        explanation to the dispositions of people. He spoke about persons,
                        living beings. Through the Abhidhamma we learn that what we call a
                        person or being are mental phenomena and physical phenomena which are
                        non-self.
                        We read in the 'Expositor' (the Co. to the Dhammasangani, the first
                        book of the Abhidhamma), p. 3,4 that Abhi is used in the sense of
                        preponderance and distinction.
                        Also in the Suttanta there is the teaching of Abhidhamma, such as the
                        teaching about the khandhas, the elements, the aayatanas, but in the
                        Abhidhamma these are classified in more detail. Also in the Suttanta
                        the Buddha taught about kamma and vipaaka, but in the Abhidhamma
                        these are taught in more detail. We learn about all the different
                        kinds of volition and about all the different kinds of vipaakacitta.
                        We learn about all the different cetasikas that acompany citta. We
                        learn about the twentyfour classes of conditions by which phenomena
                        are related to each other.
                        In the Suttanta the Buddha taught about the Paticca Samuppada, but
                        when we apply the twentyfour conditions to this teaching, we gain a
                        deeper understanding of the links of the Paticca Samuppada, and of
                        the ways by which each link condiitons the following link.
                        In the Suttanta we receive strong reminders in brief to cultivate
                        kusala, avoid akusala and purify the mind. Such impressive reminders
                        are most helpful. If we, next to the Suttanta also study the
                        Abhidhamma we receive great support so that we come to know exactly
                        what kusala is and what akusala. We also learn that what we used to
                        take for kusala and noble conduct is in fact often akusala. We learn
                        about the deep underlying motives of our actions and speech. We learn
                        what we did not know before.
                        When a person speaks harsh words to us we are likely to blame the
                        other person as the cause of our unhappiness. Through the Abhidhamma
                        we learn about the real causes of the events of life. Hearing an
                        unpleasant sound is vipaakacitta, the result of kamma performed in
                        the past. Unhappy feeling is akusala, and this arises due to the
                        latent tendency of dosa that has been accumulated. Thus, when we
                        apply the Abhidhamma we do not blame others but we know that we
                        ourselves are at fault.
                        The teaching of the Vinaya, Suttanta and Abhidhamma is one teaching
                        and we can profit from each part of the teachings, we need them all.
                        This does not mean that everybody should study the whole of the
                        Abhidhamma, but a basic understanding of some details is most
                        helpful. It helps us to gain more understanding of the deep meaning
                        of the Suttanta.

                        Johnny, your question deserves a more extensive answer, but I am just
                        going on a trip.
                        Nina.
                        Op 22-jun-2007, om 2:13 heeft johnny pruitt het volgende geschreven:

                        > What is the difference between the suttanta method of enumeration
                        > and the abhidhamma method of enumeration.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • phanlaichen
                        Dear Ole Holten Pind, Could you please substantiate your clarification regarding Patimokkha and suttantas by quoting the canonical source/ reference. With
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 29, 2007
                          Dear Ole Holten Pind,

                          Could you please substantiate your clarification regarding
                          Patimokkha and suttantas by quoting the canonical source/ reference.
                          With thoughts of metta,

                          Phanlaichen

                          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ole Holten Pind" <oleholtenpind@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear friends,
                          >
                          > suttanta is derived from sutta + anta. anta "end" apparently
                          functions as a
                          > semantically neutral suffix, cf. kammanta "action, act," from
                          kamma + anta.
                          > In the Pali canon sutta denotes the Patimokkha, unlike the
                          suttantas viz.
                          > the doctrinal parts of the canon. This distinction is
                          corroborated in by
                          > the canon itself.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          > Ole Holten Pind
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          > Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På ¶egne af
                          Ong Yong
                          > Peng
                          > Sendt: 20. juni 2007 15:38
                          > Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                          > Emne: [Pali] Re: Suttanta
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Dear Johnny,
                          >
                          > I believe suttanta = suttan-ta > sutta.m + ta (or taa?)
                          >
                          > However, I can be wrong.
                          >
                          > metta,
                          > Yong Peng.
                          >
                          > --- In Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com,
                          johnny pruitt
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          > The word Suttanta seems to be composed of two words Sutta and Anta.
                          > when put together their meaning seems to be the "end of the
                          sutta". Is
                          > this correct and what does this mean?.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Ole Holten Pind
                          Dear Phanlaichen, suttanta is not used very often in the canonical literature. It occurs e.g. at A I 60, II 147, S II 267. You also find it in the Vinaya e.g.
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 29, 2007
                            Dear Phanlaichen,

                            suttanta is not used very often in the canonical literature. It occurs e.g.
                            at A I 60, II 147, S II 267. You also find it in the Vinaya e.g. Vin I 140,
                            III 150, IV 344. There is no doubt that suttanta denotes texts like those
                            included in the first pitaka. sutta denotes the patimokkha. It is the first
                            literary category mentioned in the lists of types of text included in the
                            canon itself. For references, cf. my mail to Nina van Gorkom.

                            Ole Holten Pind

                            _____

                            Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
                            phanlaichen
                            Sendt: 29. juni 2007 09:37
                            Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                            Emne: SV: [Pali] Re: Suttanta



                            Dear Ole Holten Pind,

                            Could you please substantiate your clarification regarding
                            Patimokkha and suttantas by quoting the canonical source/ reference.
                            With thoughts of metta,

                            Phanlaichen

                            --- In Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Ole Holten
                            Pind" <oleholtenpind@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Dear friends,
                            >
                            > suttanta is derived from sutta + anta. anta "end" apparently
                            functions as a
                            > semantically neutral suffix, cf. kammanta "action, act," from
                            kamma + anta.
                            > In the Pali canon sutta denotes the Patimokkha, unlike the
                            suttantas viz.
                            > the doctrinal parts of the canon. This distinction is
                            corroborated in by
                            > the canon itself.
                            >
                            > Regards,
                            > Ole Holten Pind
                            >
                            > _____
                            >
                            > Fra: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                            [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com] På ¶egne af
                            Ong Yong
                            > Peng
                            > Sendt: 20. juni 2007 15:38
                            > Til: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                            > Emne: [Pali] Re: Suttanta
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Dear Johnny,
                            >
                            > I believe suttanta = suttan-ta > sutta.m + ta (or taa?)
                            >
                            > However, I can be wrong.
                            >
                            > metta,
                            > Yong Peng.
                            >
                            > --- In Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com,
                            johnny pruitt
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            > The word Suttanta seems to be composed of two words Sutta and Anta.
                            > when put together their meaning seems to be the "end of the
                            sutta". Is
                            > this correct and what does this mean?.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • mahasacham
                            Thanks nina for your answer on the abhidhamma enumeration mettacittena ... persons, ... a ... are ... first ... the ... the ... Suttanta ... vipaakacitta. ...
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 4, 2007
                              \Thanks nina for your answer on the abhidhamma enumeration


                              mettacittena
                              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Dear Johnny,
                              > In the Suttanta we read that the Buddha explained the Dhamma to
                              > different people at different places and adapted his way of
                              > explanation to the dispositions of people. He spoke about
                              persons,
                              > living beings. Through the Abhidhamma we learn that what we call
                              a
                              > person or being are mental phenomena and physical phenomena which
                              are
                              > non-self.
                              > We read in the 'Expositor' (the Co. to the Dhammasangani, the
                              first
                              > book of the Abhidhamma), p. 3,4 that Abhi is used in the sense of
                              > preponderance and distinction.
                              > Also in the Suttanta there is the teaching of Abhidhamma, such as
                              the
                              > teaching about the khandhas, the elements, the aayatanas, but in
                              the
                              > Abhidhamma these are classified in more detail. Also in the
                              Suttanta
                              > the Buddha taught about kamma and vipaaka, but in the Abhidhamma
                              > these are taught in more detail. We learn about all the different
                              > kinds of volition and about all the different kinds of
                              vipaakacitta.
                              > We learn about all the different cetasikas that acompany citta.
                              We
                              > learn about the twentyfour classes of conditions by which
                              phenomena
                              > are related to each other.
                              > In the Suttanta the Buddha taught about the Paticca Samuppada,
                              but
                              > when we apply the twentyfour conditions to this teaching, we gain
                              a
                              > deeper understanding of the links of the Paticca Samuppada, and
                              of
                              > the ways by which each link condiitons the following link.
                              > In the Suttanta we receive strong reminders in brief to cultivate
                              > kusala, avoid akusala and purify the mind. Such impressive
                              reminders
                              > are most helpful. If we, next to the Suttanta also study the
                              > Abhidhamma we receive great support so that we come to know
                              exactly
                              > what kusala is and what akusala. We also learn that what we used
                              to
                              > take for kusala and noble conduct is in fact often akusala. We
                              learn
                              > about the deep underlying motives of our actions and speech. We
                              learn
                              > what we did not know before.
                              > When a person speaks harsh words to us we are likely to blame the
                              > other person as the cause of our unhappiness. Through the
                              Abhidhamma
                              > we learn about the real causes of the events of life. Hearing an
                              > unpleasant sound is vipaakacitta, the result of kamma performed
                              in
                              > the past. Unhappy feeling is akusala, and this arises due to the
                              > latent tendency of dosa that has been accumulated. Thus, when we
                              > apply the Abhidhamma we do not blame others but we know that we
                              > ourselves are at fault.
                              > The teaching of the Vinaya, Suttanta and Abhidhamma is one
                              teaching
                              > and we can profit from each part of the teachings, we need them
                              all.
                              > This does not mean that everybody should study the whole of the
                              > Abhidhamma, but a basic understanding of some details is most
                              > helpful. It helps us to gain more understanding of the deep
                              meaning
                              > of the Suttanta.
                              >
                              > Johnny, your question deserves a more extensive answer, but I am
                              just
                              > going on a trip.
                              > Nina.
                              > Op 22-jun-2007, om 2:13 heeft johnny pruitt het volgende
                              geschreven:
                              >
                              > > What is the difference between the suttanta method of
                              enumeration
                              > > and the abhidhamma method of enumeration.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
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