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Re: numbering systems

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Dipa, you are right. The reference actually refers to PTS s Samyutta Nikaya volume I page 48. metta, Yong Peng. ... Can someone tell me how to find the
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 16, 2007
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      Dear Dipa,

      you are right. The reference actually refers to PTS's Samyutta Nikaya
      volume I page 48.

      metta,
      Yong Peng.


      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Dipa wrote:

      Can someone tell me how to find the quote below using the Samyutta
      Nikaya translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi? I assume the roman numeral one
      below means the Devatasamyutta and the 48 verse 48. When I turn to
      that page I don't find this quote.

      > Samyutta Nikaya I, 48
    • John Kelly
      Dear Dipa, No, the roman numeral I doesn t mean Samyutta 1 (Devata), but rather, as Yong Peng, points out volume I of the PTS recension of the text, and the 48
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 17, 2007
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        Dear Dipa,

        No, the roman numeral I doesn't mean Samyutta 1 (Devata), but rather,
        as Yong Peng, points out volume I of the PTS recension of the text,
        and the 48 refers to the quote being somewhere on page 48.

        It appears that the verse you are asking about is the one on the end
        of the page that is in Pali:
        Sambaadhe vaapi vindanti (pa~ncaalaca.n.daati bhagavaa),
        Dhamma.m nibbaanapattiyaa;
        Ye sati.m paccalattha.msu,
        Sammaa te susamaahitaa ti.
        This is in the Devaputta Samyutta, sutta 7, and would be numbered by
        some as SN 2.7

        This verse appears in Bhikkhu Bodhi's Samyutta translation on page
        143, and note that here he shows the PTS volume page numbers in square
        brackets; this verse appears just before [49].

        BB's rendering is:
        "Even in the midst of confinement they find it,
        [O Pa~ncaala.n.da," said the Blessed One,]
        "The Dhamma for the attainment of Nibbna -
        Those who have acquired mindfulness,
        Those perfectly well concentrated."

        With metta,
        John

        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Dipa <dipaeightprecepter@...> wrote:
        >
        > Can someone tell me how to find the quote below using the Samyutta
        Nikaya translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi? I assume the roman numeral one
        below means the Devatasamyutta and the 48 verse 48. When I turn to
        that page I don't find this quote.
        >
        > thanks,
        > Dipa
        >
        >
        > Even when obstacles crowd in,
        > the path to Nibbana can be won
        > by those who establish mindfulness
        > and bring to perfection equipoise.
        >
        > Samyutta Nikaya I, 48
        >
        >
        >
        > http://www.geocities.com/sisterdipa/index.html
        > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sutta.html
        > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/
        >
        > Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these
        things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise;
        undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,'
        enter on and abide in them. AN 3.65
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Dipa
        Thanks John, I tried to find the Pali word that Bhikkhu Bodhi translates as well concentrated. I am guessing it is either: vindanti or paccalattha.msu. I
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 18, 2007
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          Thanks John,
          I tried to find the Pali word that Bhikkhu Bodhi translates as well concentrated. I am guessing it is either: vindanti or paccalattha.msu.
          I can't find a definition for either of these words in a dictionary. Is there a dictionary with these words defined?

          The translation from Pariyatti is equipoise and BB has well concentrated. As a reminder I am referring to SN 2.7

          thanks,
          Dipa

          John Kelly <palistudent@...> wrote: Dear Dipa,

          No, the roman numeral I doesn't mean Samyutta 1 (Devata), but rather,
          as Yong Peng, points out volume I of the PTS recension of the text,
          and the 48 refers to the quote being somewhere on page 48.

          It appears that the verse you are asking about is the one on the end
          of the page that is in Pali:
          Sambaadhe vaapi vindanti (pa~ncaalaca.n.daati bhagavaa),
          Dhamma.m nibbaanapattiyaa;
          Ye sati.m paccalattha.msu,
          Sammaa te susamaahitaa ti.
          This is in the Devaputta Samyutta, sutta 7, and would be numbered by
          some as SN 2.7

          This verse appears in Bhikkhu Bodhi's Samyutta translation on page
          143, and note that here he shows the PTS volume page numbers in square
          brackets; this verse appears just before [49].

          BB's rendering is:
          "Even in the midst of confinement they find it,
          [O Pa~ncaala.n.da," said the Blessed One,]
          "The Dhamma for the attainment of Nibbna -
          Those who have acquired mindfulness,
          Those perfectly well concentrated."

          With metta,
          John

          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Dipa <dipaeightprecepter@...> wrote:
          >
          > Can someone tell me how to find the quote below using the Samyutta
          Nikaya translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi? I assume the roman numeral one
          below means the Devatasamyutta and the 48 verse 48. When I turn to
          that page I don't find this quote.
          >
          > thanks,
          > Dipa
          >
          >
          > Even when obstacles crowd in,
          > the path to Nibbana can be won
          > by those who establish mindfulness
          > and bring to perfection equipoise.
          >
          > Samyutta Nikaya I, 48
          >
          >
          >
          > http://www.geocities.com/sisterdipa/index.html
          > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sutta.html
          > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/
          >
          > Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these
          things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise;
          undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,'
          enter on and abide in them. AN 3.65
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >






          http://www.geocities.com/sisterdipa/index.html
          http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sutta.html
          http://www.accesstoinsight.org/

          Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,' enter on and abide in them. AN 3.65

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John Kelly
          Dear Dipa ... concentrated. The word that BB translates as well concentrated is susamaahitaa - from prefix su- meaning good or well and samaahita meaning
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 20, 2007
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            Dear Dipa

            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Dipa <dipaeightprecepter@...> wrote:
            > I tried to find the Pali word that Bhikkhu Bodhi translates as well
            concentrated.

            The word that BB translates as well concentrated is susamaahitaa -
            from prefix su- meaning good or well and samaahita meaning settled,
            composed, concentrated. See
            http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.3:1:3435.pali

            > I am guessing it is either: vindanti or paccalattha.msu.
            > I can't find a definition for either of these words in a dictionary.
            Is there a dictionary with these words defined?

            Ah, yes, it is not always easy looking up Pali words in the
            dictionary! First you have to try and separate out the inflected
            ending. In the case of vindanti, experience would make one assume
            that this is a 3rd person plural present indicative verb ending, and
            thus one finds it in the dictionary under it's singular form - vindati
            ("to know, to find"). See
            http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.3:1:1657.pali

            The next one, paccalattha.msu, is a little more difficult. Again,
            first separate out the inflected ending, which appears to be -a.msu in
            this case, a form of 3rd person plural preterite tense. Also,
            experience has shown me that the prefix pa.ti- often is changed to
            pacca- (I'm not sure why this happens or if there is any rule as to
            when this change is made - perhaps somehow more knowledgable on the
            list can help). Anyway, so now one can look up verbs starting with
            pa.tila to see what appears, and l thus found pa.tilabhati (see
            http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.2:1:1244.pali
            ) which shows that paccalattha.msu is a variant of paccaladdha.msu
            which is the 3rd pers. pl. preterite - thus "they obtained", or as BB
            translates "they have acquired". Tricky, isn't it? Don't despair -
            much of the above will become easier as you gain more experience
            reading Pali - and one always has this group to ask, as you did!

            With metta,
            John

            > The translation from Pariyatti is equipoise and BB has well
            concentrated. As a reminder I am referring to SN 2.7
            >
            > thanks,
            > Dipa
            >
            > John Kelly <palistudent@...> wrote:
            Dear Dipa,
            >
            > No, the roman numeral I doesn't mean Samyutta 1 (Devata), but rather,
            > as Yong Peng, points out volume I of the PTS recension of the text,
            > and the 48 refers to the quote being somewhere on page 48.
            >
            > It appears that the verse you are asking about is the one on the end
            > of the page that is in Pali:
            > Sambaadhe vaapi vindanti (pa~ncaalaca.n.daati bhagavaa),
            > Dhamma.m nibbaanapattiyaa;
            > Ye sati.m paccalattha.msu,
            > Sammaa te susamaahitaa ti.
            > This is in the Devaputta Samyutta, sutta 7, and would be numbered by
            > some as SN 2.7
            >
            > This verse appears in Bhikkhu Bodhi's Samyutta translation on page
            > 143, and note that here he shows the PTS volume page numbers in square
            > brackets; this verse appears just before [49].
            >
            > BB's rendering is:
            > "Even in the midst of confinement they find it,
            > [O Pa~ncaala.n.da," said the Blessed One,]
            > "The Dhamma for the attainment of Nibbna -
            > Those who have acquired mindfulness,
            > Those perfectly well concentrated."
            >
            > With metta,
            > John
            >
            > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Dipa <dipaeightprecepter@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Can someone tell me how to find the quote below using the Samyutta
            > Nikaya translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi? I assume the roman numeral one
            > below means the Devatasamyutta and the 48 verse 48. When I turn to
            > that page I don't find this quote.
            > >
            > > thanks,
            > > Dipa
            > >
            > >
            > > Even when obstacles crowd in,
            > > the path to Nibbana can be won
            > > by those who establish mindfulness
            > > and bring to perfection equipoise.
            > >
            > > Samyutta Nikaya I, 48
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > http://www.geocities.com/sisterdipa/index.html
            > > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sutta.html
            > > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/
            > >
            > > Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these
            > things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise;
            > undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,'
            > enter on and abide in them. AN 3.65
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > http://www.geocities.com/sisterdipa/index.html
            > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sutta.html
            > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/
            >
            > Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these
            things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise;
            undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,'
            enter on and abide in them. AN 3.65
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Stephen Hodge
            ... I think this might be a doh ! moment. Pacca- is almost always a contracted form of pa.ti- before an a or aa (= Skt praty + a). Similary, paccu is
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 20, 2007
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              John Kelly wrote:

              > Also,
              > experience has shown me that the prefix pa.ti- often is changed to
              > pacca- (I'm not sure why this happens or if there is any rule as to
              > when this change is made - perhaps somehow more knowledgable on the
              > list can help).

              I think this might be a "doh !" moment. Pacca- is almost always a
              contracted form of pa.ti- before an "a" or "aa" (= Skt "praty + a).
              Similary, "paccu" is a contracted form of pat.ti before an "u". There is
              even an entry to this effect in PED.

              Best wishes,
              Stephen Hodge
            • johnny pruitt
              Thanks Stephan That makes a lot of sense. An A is inserted in front of the verb to signifie that it is preterite. so One gets Pa.ti---a---laddh---a.msu which
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 21, 2007
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                Thanks Stephan
                That makes a lot of sense. An A is inserted in front of the verb to signifie that it is preterite. so One gets Pa.ti---a---laddh---a.msu which mashes together to form paccaladdha.msu or paccalattha.su

                Thanks Johnny Pruitt

                Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...> wrote: John Kelly wrote:

                > Also,
                > experience has shown me that the prefix pa.ti- often is changed to
                > pacca- (I'm not sure why this happens or if there is any rule as to
                > when this change is made - perhaps somehow more knowledgable on the
                > list can help).

                I think this might be a "doh !" moment. Pacca- is almost always a
                contracted form of pa.ti- before an "a" or "aa" (= Skt "praty + a).
                Similary, "paccu" is a contracted form of pat.ti before an "u". There is
                even an entry to this effect in PED.

                Best wishes,
                Stephen Hodge






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