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Abhidhammattha Sangho - Citta Summary

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  • bhagatyojana
    In the first chapter of Abhidhammattha Sangho by Anurudha Thera , the citta summary is as below : Ekadasavidham tsama - pathamadikam iritam Jhanam ekekam ante
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 15, 2007
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      In the first chapter of Abhidhammattha Sangho by Anurudha Thera , the
      citta summary is as below :

      "Ekadasavidham tsama - pathamadikam'iritam

      Jhanam'ekekam ante tu -tevisatividham bhave "

      translated by Narada Thera as

      " Thus the Jhanas begining from the first amount to eleven, they say.
      The last Jhana(i.e. the fifth) totals twenty-three"

      Please explain how we arrive at the above mentioned number of Jhanas and
      which are they?

      Metta,

      Dr. Yojana
    • Lotsawanet
      Dear all, Regarding Jhana, what would be its definition in pali language? What would be the difference between jhana, Samadhi and vipassana? And their
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 15, 2007
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        Dear all,



        Regarding Jhana, what would be its definition in pali language?

        What would be the difference between jhana, Samadhi and vipassana? And their
        definitions in the pali canon?



        Thanks, Gabriel



        From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        bhagatyojana
        Sent: 16 June 2007 01:48
        To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Pali] Abhidhammattha Sangho - Citta Summary




        In the first chapter of Abhidhammattha Sangho by Anurudha Thera , the
        citta summary is as below :

        "Ekadasavidham tsama - pathamadikam'iritam

        Jhanam'ekekam ante tu -tevisatividham bhave "

        translated by Narada Thera as

        " Thus the Jhanas begining from the first amount to eleven, they say.
        The last Jhana(i.e. the fifth) totals twenty-three"

        Please explain how we arrive at the above mentioned number of Jhanas and
        which are they?

        Metta,

        Dr. Yojana





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nina van Gorkom
        Dear Dr. Yojana, The Commentary (Summary of the topics of abhidhamma and commentary, transl. by Wijeratne and Gethin, PTS);
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 16, 2007
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          Dear Dr. Yojana,
          The Commentary (Summary of the topics of abhidhamma and commentary,
          transl. by Wijeratne and Gethin, PTS); <Each ordinary jhaana ,
          beginning with the first is threefold and [each] transcendent jhaan
          is eightfold, [making each one] elevenfold; but the last jhaana is
          twenty-threefold: 'three formsphere, twelve formless-sphere and eight
          transcendent [jhaanas] is what is meant.>
          N: for the first (mundane)jhana we have kusala jhaanacitta, vipaaka-
          jhaanacitta and kiriya jhaanacitta.
          As to lokuttara jhaana, there are eight lokuttara cittas accompanied
          by the factors of the first jhaana. This occurs, no matter whether
          that person has first developed mundane jhana or not. The
          concentration factor has the same intensity as the first jhaana, but
          nibbaana is the object.

          As to the fifth jhaana: there are three ruupajhaanacittas of the
          fifth stage (kusasla, vipaaka kiriya), there are twelve aruupa-
          jhaanacittas for the four stages of aruupajhaana, but they have the
          same jhaanafactors as the fifth ruupa-jhaana. There are twelve,
          because they are of the jaatis that are kusala, vipaaka and kiriya
          for each of the four stages.
          There are eight lokuttara jhaanacittas with jhaanafactors of the
          fifth ruupajhaana. Altogether these are twentythree fold.
          Nina.
          Op 15-jun-2007, om 22:18 heeft bhagatyojana het volgende geschreven:

          > "Ekadasavidham tsama - pathamadikam'iritam
          >
          > Jhanam'ekekam ante tu -tevisatividham bhave "
          >
          > translated by Narada Thera as
          >
          > " Thus the Jhanas begining from the first amount to eleven, they say.
          > The last Jhana(i.e. the fifth) totals twenty-three"
          >
          > Please explain how we arrive at the above mentioned number of
          > Jhanas and
          > which are they?



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nina van Gorkom
          Dear Gabriel, Papa~ncasuudanii, Atthk to the Sallekhasutta (M.N. I,8): Jhaayathaa ti. aaramma.nuupanijjhaanena a.t.thati.msaaramma.naahi (thirtyeight objects
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 19, 2007
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            Dear Gabriel,

            Papa~ncasuudanii, Atthk to the Sallekhasutta (M.N. I,8):
            Jhaayathaa ti. aaramma.nuupanijjhaanena a.t.thati.msaaramma.naahi
            (thirtyeight objects of samatha), lakkha.nuupanijjhaanena ca
            aniccaadito (beginning with aniccaa) khandhaayatanaadiini
            upanijjhaayatha. Samatha~n ca vipassana~ca va.d.dhetaa(develop) ti
            vutta.m hoti. Maa pamaadatthaati maapamajjittha.
            --------
            N: jhaana can have several meanings. In the text above it is either
            meditation on the meditation subjects of samatha and also
            contemplation on the three general characteristics of realities in
            vipassanaa. Thus jhaayathaa can be translated as: meditate, or
            contemplate.
            Samaadhi is ekaggataa cetasika, concentration, accompanying each
            citta. Depending on the citta it may be akusala or kusala or
            indeterminate (avyaakata).
            In Samatha it is concentration on the meditation subject of samatha
            and when it is highly developed it accompanies jhaanacitta.
            In vipassana it is concentration of the eightfold Path and its object
            is a nama or rupa that appears at the present moment. When it
            accompanies lokuttara citta, nibbaana is the object, it is of a high
            degree, equal to the first stage of jhanacitta also for those who did
            not develop mundane jhaana. For those who developed different stages
            of jhaana, lokuttara citta can be accompanied by jhanafactors,
            including samadhi, of the different stages of jhana.
            Nina.


            Op 16-jun-2007, om 4:59 heeft Lotsawanet het volgende geschreven:

            > Regarding Jhana, what would be its definition in pali language?
            >
            > What would be the difference between jhana, Samadhi and vipassana?
            > And their
            > definitions in the pali canon?



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Lotsawanet
            Dear Nina, thanks for the explanation! If I understand right..please correct if not... Jhaana and Samadhi are different aspects or focus inside the practices
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 24, 2007
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              Dear Nina, thanks for the explanation!



              If I understand right..please correct if not...

              Jhaana and Samadhi are different aspects or focus inside the practices of
              samatha and vipassanaa...is that right?

              So they would be a kind of different instruments with different qualities
              that offers the support to see things in different ways using either the
              samatha or vipassanaa method, am right?



              Thanks again, with regards

              gabriel





              From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nina
              van Gorkom
              Sent: 19 June 2007 20:57
              To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Pali] Abhidhammattha Sangho - Citta Summary



              Dear Gabriel,

              Papa~ncasuudanii, Atthk to the Sallekhasutta (M.N. I,8):
              Jhaayathaa ti. aaramma.nuupanijjhaanena a.t.thati.msaaramma.naahi
              (thirtyeight objects of samatha), lakkha.nuupanijjhaanena ca
              aniccaadito (beginning with aniccaa) khandhaayatanaadiini
              upanijjhaayatha. Samatha~n ca vipassana~ca va.d.dhetaa(develop) ti
              vutta.m hoti. Maa pamaadatthaati maapamajjittha.
              --------
              N: jhaana can have several meanings. In the text above it is either
              meditation on the meditation subjects of samatha and also
              contemplation on the three general characteristics of realities in
              vipassanaa. Thus jhaayathaa can be translated as: meditate, or
              contemplate.
              Samaadhi is ekaggataa cetasika, concentration, accompanying each
              citta. Depending on the citta it may be akusala or kusala or
              indeterminate (avyaakata).
              In Samatha it is concentration on the meditation subject of samatha
              and when it is highly developed it accompanies jhaanacitta.
              In vipassana it is concentration of the eightfold Path and its object
              is a nama or rupa that appears at the present moment. When it
              accompanies lokuttara citta, nibbaana is the object, it is of a high
              degree, equal to the first stage of jhanacitta also for those who did
              not develop mundane jhaana. For those who developed different stages
              of jhaana, lokuttara citta can be accompanied by jhanafactors,
              including samadhi, of the different stages of jhana.
              Nina.

              Op 16-jun-2007, om 4:59 heeft Lotsawanet het volgende geschreven:

              > Regarding Jhana, what would be its definition in pali language?
              >
              > What would be the difference between jhana, Samadhi and vipassana?
              > And their
              > definitions in the pali canon?

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lotsawanet
              While studying the etymology of the word yogi in India I found difficulty to encounter it in the Buddhist canon. Could just find the following passage:
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 24, 2007
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                While studying the etymology of the word yogi in India I found difficulty to
                encounter it in the Buddhist canon.

                Could just find the following passage:



                Yogavacaro pancindriyani avikkhepe patitthapeti,...(patisambhida.
                1.4.4.17.62)



                What would this sentence means?



                In the Hinduism an yogi would be one that has achieved the yoga, or the
                union between the individual self and the universal self, as to say just one
                of the meanings of the word regarding the different darsanas
                (schools-systems) of Hinduism.

                Thus the word is used in the pali canon? If yes, in wich way?



                With regards, Gabriel.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nina van Gorkom
                Dear Gabriel, ... Nina: The matter is more complex. In the Pa.t.thaana, the Book of the Abhidhamma on Conditional Relations, jhaana-paccaya is one of the
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 29, 2007
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                  Dear Gabriel,
                  -------
                  Op 24-jun-2007, om 9:49 heeft Lotsawanet het volgende geschreven:
                  > Jhaana and Samadhi are different aspects or focus inside the
                  > practices of
                  > samatha and vipassanaa...is that right?
                  >
                  > So they would be a kind of different instruments with different
                  > qualities
                  > that offers the support to see things in different ways using
                  > either the
                  > samatha or vipassanaa method, am right?


                  Nina: The matter is more complex.
                  In the Pa.t.thaana, the Book of the Abhidhamma on Conditional
                  Relations, jhaana-paccaya is one of the conditioning factors that
                  conditions citta and cetasika. I shall quote parts of what I wrote in
                  my "Conditions':
                  < In the case of jh�na-condition, jh�na-paccaya, the cetasikas which
                  are jh�na-factors are the conditioning dhammas which cause the citta
                  and accompaying cetasikas, the conditioned dhammas, to fix themselves
                  firmly on the object which is experienced. In the �Visuddhimagga�, in
                  the section on the development of samatha, tranquil meditation (Ch
                  4), five jh�na-factors are summed up, sobhana cetasikas which should
                  be developed in order to reach jh�na, absorption. These factors
                  assist the citta to be absorbed in the meditation subject. When
                  jh�nacitta arises there are no longer sense impressions and there is
                  temporary freedom from defilements. Jh�nacitta is of a higher level
                  of citta than k�m�vara citta, citta of the sense sphere. The word
                  jh�na has been explained as being derived from �jh�yati�, to
                  contemplate, or to think closely of an object. Or else �jh�yati� can
                  mean to burn (Vis. IV, 119), since the jh�na-factors which are
                  developed burn the �hindrances� (akusala cetasikas) away. >
                  Jhaayati in the sense of burning is from another stem.

                  < The jh�na-factors which are developed in samatha are sobhana
                  cetasikas, they have to be developed together with pa��� which knows
                  the way to develop calm, so that absorption can be attained. However,
                  jh�na-factors can also be taken in a wider sense, they can even be
                  akusala. That is why the �Dhammasanga�i� mentions in the �Summary�
                  jh�na-factors arising not only with the mah�-kusala cittas which are
                  accompanied by pa���, but also with those which are unaccompanied by
                  pa���, ��.na-vippayutta, as well as with each of the akusala cittas.
                  Not only kusala citta but also akusala citta needs jh�na-factors
                  which assist the citta to be firmly fixed on an object. >
                  < The �Visuddhimagga� (Ch IV) mentions five of the seven jh�na-
                  factors, in that case sobhana cetasikas, which have to be developed
                  in samatha with the purpose of attaining jh�na. However, there must
                  be pa��� which knows the characteristics of those particular jh�na-
                  factors and which knows the way to develop calm with a suitable
                  meditation subject. One will not attain true calm merely by sitting
                  and trying to concentrate on one object. There are forty meditation
                  subjects of samatha and it depends on the individual which subject is
                  suitable as a means to develop calm (Vis. Ch IV-Ch X). For the
                  development of samatha it is essential that there is pa��� which
                  knows exactly when there is akusala citta and when there is kusala
                  citta with calm. The sobhana jh�na-factors have each their own
                  function in inhibiting the hindrances so that calm can be developed. >
                  < Sam�dhi, concentration, developed in samatha, is samm�-sam�dhi,
                  which is right concentration on the meditation subject. It inhibits
                  the hindrance which is sensuous desire (k�ma-cchandha). As calm grows
                  sam�dhi also develops. There is miccha-sam�dhi, wrong concentration,
                  and samm�-sam�dhi, right concentration. If there is no pa��� which
                  knows precisely when there is kusala citta and when akusala citta,
                  wrong concentration can be taken for right concentration. Someone may
                  mistakenly believe that there is calm when he just sits and for
                  example looks for a long time at a kasina (disk) which is among the
                  meditation subjects of samatha. Instead of true calm which is
                  wholesome there is clinging to quietness.

                  Not merely intellectual understanding of the jh�na-factors is needed
                  for the development of calm but there must also be right
                  understanding which discerns precisely their different
                  characteristics. When one underestimates the difficulty of the
                  development of jh�na there is bound to be wrong concentration. >

                  < Jh�na-factors which are sobhana condition each kusala citta, and
                  thus they also condition the kusala citta which develops vipassan� by
                  way of jh�na-condition. In vipassan� the aim is not the suppression
                  of the hindrances by the development of the sobhana jh�na-factors, as
                  is the case in samatha. Some people think that the hindrances have to
                  be suppressed first before there can be right understanding of n�ma
                  and r�pa. In vipassan�, however, right understanding is developed of
                  whatever reality appears, also when that reality is a �hindrance�.
                  When it appears it does so because it is conditioned. All conditioned
                  realities have to be known as they are, as non-self. At the moment of
                  right understanding of the characteristic of a hindrance such as
                  desire or ill will, the citta is kusala citta and there is no
                  hindrance.>

                  < Those who are proficient in jh�na and also develop insight can take
                  jh�nacitta as object of insight; jh�na is then the basis of insight.
                  In that way they can become detached from the idea that jh�nacitta is
                  self. >

                  Gabriel, does this answer your questions? Do not hesitate to ask again.
                  Nina.




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Lotsawanet
                  Dear Nina. Thanks very much for your answer... Any way, I had some felling about the categorization and classification of Samadhi,dhyana, shamata and
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 9, 2007
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                    Dear Nina.

                    Thanks very much for your answer...
                    Any way, I had some felling about the categorization and classification of
                    Samadhi,dhyana, shamata and vipassana...

                    I find something about four types of Samadhi:

                    (1) the concentration issuing in the attainment of the jhanas (absorptions).
                    (2) the concentration issuing in the attainment of nana dassana
                    (extra-sensory perception).
                    (3) the concentration issuing in the attainment of satisampajanna (intent
                    awareness).
                    (4) the concentration issuing in the attainment of vipassana nana
                    (penetrative insight).

                    (1 ) The jhanas (absorptions) derived from concentrated tranquillity of body
                    and mind are highly conducive to states of equanimity and bliss. In view of
                    this, these concentrated- absorptions are only too susceptible of being
                    grasped as ends in themselves, when in reality they are to be only regarded
                    as a means to an end, and as such merit a primary and distinguished place.

                    (2) Nana dassana (extra-sensory perception) is that faculty of perceiving
                    things astral. Devoid of this kind of supernormal vision the human horizon
                    is inevitably constrained within the limitations of the five sense-organs,
                    to say the least. However, the attainment of supernormal vision, too, is
                    only too easily grasped as an end in itself, when in fact it is only a
                    means.

                    (3) Satisampajanna (intent awareness) is that faculty of mindfulness and
                    awareness so necessary for keeping the mind in harness and under restrained
                    control. Without this incessant control over formations, feelings,
                    perceptions, and concepts, consciousness is only too gamely led astray from
                    cyclic second to second, the victim of every incident that upsprings.
                    However, mind-control in itself is insufficient as to be regarded as an end,
                    for although it keeps a constant vigil over random effervencies it does not
                    annihi-late them at the source. At best, it serves as a preventative and
                    defensive device.

                    (4) Vipassana nana (penetrative insight) is that faculty which penetrates to
                    the source. As long as this faculty is not attained the mind is not in a
                    position to comprehend or understand the scheme in which all things in the
                    visible and invisible universe have their relative span. Without this
                    objective vision, consciousness is dominated by its own limited subjectivity
                    and personal prejudice. It is,finally, only through this faculty that the
                    unrealized potential be-comes the actualized reality. That is, the ultimate
                    integration of personality and its unrestricted release.

                    These four categories of concentration - attainments, however, may be
                    resolved under the collective term of Samatha - Vipassana (tranquillized -
                    penetrative insight), and shall be dealt with as such.

                    As for jhanna...

                    Meditation on these subjects is designed so as to winnow the mind from all
                    distractions and attachments (amongst which it is incessantly scattered and
                    diffused from second to second) and by focusing the attention upon a
                    specific subject to attain to tranquility. And not only tranquility but to
                    mental equipoise (samatha) and that one-pointed (ekaggata) potential of
                    concentrated-absorption called jhana. In this way, jhanna would be a product
                    of samatha.

                    the goal of samatha is to attain jhana, of which there are eight: 4
                    Rupajhanas, 4 Arupajhanas.

                    The 4 Rupajhanas are as follows:
                    Pathama jhana : a state of mental ease and buoyancy, wherein reason
                    and reflection are still effective.
                    Dutiya jhana : a state pervasive of bliss, wherein reason and reflection
                    have ceased to be effective.
                    Tatiya jhana : a state of equanimity, mindful and intent, undisturbed by
                    all comings and goings, beings and becomings.
                    Catuttha jhana : a state beyond pleasure and pain, wherein the limbs
                    become numb and even breathing stops. The mind, however, being translucent
                    and keen.

                    The 4 Arupajhanas are 'formless' attainments (samapatti):
                    Akasananca ayatana jhana : a state wherein only the infinity of space
                    is experienced.
                    Vinnanananca ayatana jhana : a state wherein only the infinity of
                    consciousness is experienced.
                    Akincanna ayatana jhana : a state wherein only voidness is
                    experienced.
                    Nevasanna nasanna ayatana jhana : a state wherein neither perception
                    nor non-perception can be said to be effective.

                    So could we say that jhanna in their eight levels is the first type of
                    samaddhi?
                    And the attainment of that is reached by the development of shamata?

                    Also, could we say that the attainment of the third and forth Samadhi is
                    reached by the development of vipassana practice?
                    Could we categorize in this way?

                    Thanks again, sincerely
                    Gabriel


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nina
                    van Gorkom
                    Sent: 29 June 2007 19:45
                    To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Pali] Abhidhammattha Sangho - Citta Summary

                    Dear Gabriel,
                    -------
                    Op 24-jun-2007, om 9:49 heeft Lotsawanet het volgende geschreven:
                    > Jhaana and Samadhi are different aspects or focus inside the
                    > practices of
                    > samatha and vipassanaa...is that right?
                    >
                    > So they would be a kind of different instruments with different
                    > qualities
                    > that offers the support to see things in different ways using
                    > either the
                    > samatha or vipassanaa method, am right?


                    Nina: The matter is more complex.
                    In the Pa.t.thaana, the Book of the Abhidhamma on Conditional
                    Relations, jhaana-paccaya is one of the conditioning factors that
                    conditions citta and cetasika. I shall quote parts of what I wrote in
                    my "Conditions':
                    < In the case of jhåna-condition, jhåna-paccaya, the cetasikas which
                    are jhåna-factors are the conditioning dhammas which cause the citta
                    and accompaying cetasikas, the conditioned dhammas, to fix themselves
                    firmly on the object which is experienced. In the “Visuddhimagga”, in
                    the section on the development of samatha, tranquil meditation (Ch
                    4), five jhåna-factors are summed up, sobhana cetasikas which should
                    be developed in order to reach jhåna, absorption. These factors
                    assist the citta to be absorbed in the meditation subject. When
                    jhånacitta arises there are no longer sense impressions and there is
                    temporary freedom from defilements. Jhånacitta is of a higher level
                    of citta than kåmåvara citta, citta of the sense sphere. The word
                    jhåna has been explained as being derived from “jhåyati”, to
                    contemplate, or to think closely of an object. Or else “jhåyati” can
                    mean to burn (Vis. IV, 119), since the jhåna-factors which are
                    developed burn the “hindrances” (akusala cetasikas) away. >
                    Jhaayati in the sense of burning is from another stem.

                    < The jhåna-factors which are developed in samatha are sobhana
                    cetasikas, they have to be developed together with paññå which knows
                    the way to develop calm, so that absorption can be attained. However,
                    jhåna-factors can also be taken in a wider sense, they can even be
                    akusala. That is why the “Dhammasangaùi” mentions in the “Summary”
                    jhåna-factors arising not only with the mahå-kusala cittas which are
                    accompanied by paññå, but also with those which are unaccompanied by
                    paññå, ñå.na-vippayutta, as well as with each of the akusala cittas.
                    Not only kusala citta but also akusala citta needs jhåna-factors
                    which assist the citta to be firmly fixed on an object. >
                    < The “Visuddhimagga” (Ch IV) mentions five of the seven jhåna-
                    factors, in that case sobhana cetasikas, which have to be developed
                    in samatha with the purpose of attaining jhåna. However, there must
                    be paññå which knows the characteristics of those particular jhåna-
                    factors and which knows the way to develop calm with a suitable
                    meditation subject. One will not attain true calm merely by sitting
                    and trying to concentrate on one object. There are forty meditation
                    subjects of samatha and it depends on the individual which subject is
                    suitable as a means to develop calm (Vis. Ch IV-Ch X). For the
                    development of samatha it is essential that there is paññå which
                    knows exactly when there is akusala citta and when there is kusala
                    citta with calm. The sobhana jhåna-factors have each their own
                    function in inhibiting the hindrances so that calm can be developed. >
                    < Samådhi, concentration, developed in samatha, is sammå-samådhi,
                    which is right concentration on the meditation subject. It inhibits
                    the hindrance which is sensuous desire (kåma-cchandha). As calm grows
                    samådhi also develops. There is miccha-samådhi, wrong concentration,
                    and sammå-samådhi, right concentration. If there is no paññå which
                    knows precisely when there is kusala citta and when akusala citta,
                    wrong concentration can be taken for right concentration. Someone may
                    mistakenly believe that there is calm when he just sits and for
                    example looks for a long time at a kasina (disk) which is among the
                    meditation subjects of samatha. Instead of true calm which is
                    wholesome there is clinging to quietness.

                    Not merely intellectual understanding of the jhåna-factors is needed
                    for the development of calm but there must also be right
                    understanding which discerns precisely their different
                    characteristics. When one underestimates the difficulty of the
                    development of jhåna there is bound to be wrong concentration. >

                    < Jhåna-factors which are sobhana condition each kusala citta, and
                    thus they also condition the kusala citta which develops vipassanå by
                    way of jhåna-condition. In vipassanå the aim is not the suppression
                    of the hindrances by the development of the sobhana jhåna-factors, as
                    is the case in samatha. Some people think that the hindrances have to
                    be suppressed first before there can be right understanding of nåma
                    and rúpa. In vipassanå, however, right understanding is developed of
                    whatever reality appears, also when that reality is a “hindrance”.
                    When it appears it does so because it is conditioned. All conditioned
                    realities have to be known as they are, as non-self. At the moment of
                    right understanding of the characteristic of a hindrance such as
                    desire or ill will, the citta is kusala citta and there is no
                    hindrance.>

                    < Those who are proficient in jhåna and also develop insight can take
                    jhånacitta as object of insight; jhåna is then the basis of insight.
                    In that way they can become detached from the idea that jhånacitta is
                    self. >

                    Gabriel, does this answer your questions? Do not hesitate to ask again.
                    Nina.




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                  • Nina van Gorkom
                    Dear Gabriel, thank you for your post. I cannot answer very extensively since I will be off for a week this Saturday. ... G: So could we say that jhanna in
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jul 11, 2007
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                      Dear Gabriel,
                      thank you for your post.
                      I cannot answer very extensively since I will be off for a week this
                      Saturday.

                      Op 10-jul-2007, om 5:35 heeft Lotsawanet het volgende geschreven:

                      > I find something about four types of Samadhi:
                      >
                      > (1) the concentration issuing in the attainment of the jhanas
                      > (absorptions).
                      > (2) the concentration issuing in the attainment of nana dassana
                      > (extra-sensory perception).
                      > (3) the concentration issuing in the attainment of satisampajanna
                      > (intent
                      > awareness).
                      > (4) the concentration issuing in the attainment of vipassana nana
                      > (penetrative insight).
                      --------
                      G: So could we say that jhanna in their eight levels is the first
                      type of
                      samaddhi?
                      And the attainment of that is reached by the development of samatha?
                      ------
                      N: Yes.
                      ----------

                      G: Also, could we say that the attainment of the third and forth
                      Samadhi is
                      reached by the development of vipassana practice?
                      Could we categorize in this way?
                      ---------
                      N: I remember that this was mentioned in a sutta but now I have no
                      time to trace this.
                      When speaking about vipassana I think of samaadhi of the eightfold
                      Path that is developed with the other factors, especially right
                      understanding of the eightfold Path. Then the object of samaadhi is a
                      nama or rupa that appears at the present moment, such as visible
                      object, seeing, sound, etc. The goal is to realize them as
                      impermanent, dukkha and anattaa. Instead of emphasizing mind-control
                      I would rather say that understanding is essential.
                      Samaadhi is a cetasika arising with each citta but Now we see that it
                      can be very different, depending on the citta it accompanies.
                      Samaadhi in jhaana is different from samaadhi of the eightfold Path
                      and their objects are altogether different.
                      When we read in the texts about samaadhi we should be very careful
                      and look at the context, and also consult the ancient commentaries so
                      that we do not misunderstand its meaning.
                      Nina.



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