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  • Lotsawanet
    Dear members. I was analysing the etymology of the word “’jig rten” in Tibetan and went through some passages in some sutras defining the word. I would
    Message 1 of 51 , Jun 3, 2007
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      Dear members.

      I was analysing the etymology of the word ��jig rten� in Tibetan and went
      through some passages in some sutras defining the word.

      I would like to ask help to clear some doubts that arise comparing some
      definitions that I have found in different places in pali, Sanskrit and
      Tibetan languages.

      In the illuminator dictionary for �jig rten:

      "World". Translation of the Sanskrit "lokah". Tibetan etymology: �rten�- a
      basis or support which is ��jig pa�- subject to decay, transitory. The
      meaning of both the Sanskrit and Tibetan is the external, transitory places
      that provide a locale for beings to live in. Note that the term can be and
      is used to mean all of the following: a single world like our planet earth;
      a single, Mt. Meru-based world system as described in ancient Indian
      cosmology; a whole system of worlds, such as a galaxy; or a complete system
      of worlds like a universe.

      So we could define this base or support as some kink of atomic base or
      something made up by the five elements?

      I have noted also that you compare in the illuminator realms (kham) with
      world system (`jig rten) where for �kham� you define as:

      "Realm" meaning a realm of a certain type of experience belonging to a
      certain kind of being. Similar to the meaning of the Sanskrit "loka"
      (Tibetan, �jig rten world or world system). E.g., kham gsum- "the three
      realms" q.v. Other terms that are fitting: "plane", "sphere", "region".

      I checked the Sanskrit word for the three realms (kham gsum) and it seems
      that is �Tri-loka�.

      If is in this way so in this context we have the same Sanskrit word �LOKA�
      for defining the Tibetan words ��jig rten� and �kham�. So is not similar to
      the word Loka as you wrote but is the own Sanskrit word LOKA for both ��jig
      rten� and �kham� in this context.

      Also beginning with the Indian etymology of the word we could see that for
      example Traditionally in the HYPERLINK
      "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puranas"Puranas there are seven lokas, Bhuloka
      (earth), Bhuvarloka (air), Svarlokaor Svargaloka (heaven), Maharloka,
      Janaloka, Tapoloka (abode of HYPERLINK
      "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapas"tapas) and Satyaloka (abode of HYPERLINK
      "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satya"Truth), also called Brahmaloka or the
      world of HYPERLINK "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahma"Brahma. So they
      state LOKA for the elements in the same way.

      In the Hindu scriptures we can found also for the word LOKA as a place of a
      particular level of vibration and associated beings, Gods, devas or men.
      Three primary lokas (Bhuloka, Devaloka and Sivaloka) and fourteen
      sub-classifications of the cosmos are designated in their scriptures.

      Also according to hindu�s different classification of the word we find for

      That are HYPERLINK "http://www.experiencefestival.com/seven_planes"seven
      planes. They are HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/bhuloka"Bhuloka (HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/earth_plane"earth plane), HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/bhuvarloka"Bhuvarloka (HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/antariksha"Antariksha or the HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/astral_plane"astral plane), HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/svargaloka"Svargaloka (HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/heaven"heaven or the HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/mental_plane"mental plane), HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/maharloka"Maharloka, HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/janaloka"Janaloka, HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/tapoloka"Tapoloka and HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/satyaloka"Satyaloka (HYPERLINK
      "http://www.experiencefestival.com/brahmaloka"Brahmaloka or the world of
      HYPERLINK "http://www.experiencefestival.com/brahma"Brahma, the HYPERLINK

      So we could see that here we have already a mental LOKA (svargaloka). If
      this is so we this would disagree with your the illuminator where it says
      that is a �externar� transitory place that provide a locale for beings to
      live in.

      In the Jain sect we find the definition of LOKA and a different group of
      TRI-LOKA as:

      �The world (LOKA) is eternal, without beginning or end. LOKA is that place
      in which happiness (SUKA) and misery (DHUKA) are experienced as results of
      virtue and vice. It is composed of three parts , urdhva (where the gods
      reside), Madhya(this world of ours) and adho (where the inhabitants of hells

      The mundane universe �Lokakasa� is pervaded with dharma wich makes all
      movement possible. Beyond the lokakasa there is no dharma and therefore no
      movement, but only space �akasa�. Surrounding this lokakasa are three layers
      of air. The perfect soul rising straight over the urdhva-loka goes to the
      top of this lokakasa and (there being no dharma) remains motionless there.

      (Surendranath Dasgupta, History of Indian philosophy, Cambridge University

      As for the budhist definition and classifications of Loka:

      As for the TRI_LOKA in Buddhism in pali canon we have:

      1. Rupa-loka � Form sphere

      2. A-rupa-loka � formeless sphere

      3. Kama-loka � Desire sphere

      We find this division in the illuminator as:

      1. Rupa-dhatu

      2. Arupa-dhatu

      3. Kama-dhatu

      If we follow the pali words for this three we find the word LOKA designating
      also the �Dhyana Lokas� or mental spheres where sentients beings reside.

      In other words:

      1) We could difine LOKA as the result of the Karma of beings. By the
      strength of this karma arise a movement the creates a calm wind whose power
      gradually increase to form the mandala of air. And then goes on from this
      element to the other elements one creating and supporting other until we
      have the base of the universe where beings live.

      2) We have also for LOKA the mental environments/states/spheres where
      the inhabitants of form and formeless spheres abiding in dhyanas experience

      As a last find for the definition of LOKA in the Buddhist context we find in
      the Prajnaparamita-ratnagunasamcayagatha (The perfection of wisdom in eight
      thousand lines) Sutra the following:

      �Shubuti: How does perfect of wisdom instruct the Tathagatas in this world,
      and what is that the Tathagatas call �world�(LOKA)? [256]

      Baghavat: The five skandhas have by the Tathagata being declared as
      �world�(LOKA). Wich five? Form, felling, cognition, formatives and

      Shubuti: How have the five skandhas been shown up by the perfection of
      wisdom of the Tathagatas, or what has been shown up by her?

      Baghavat: The perfection of the Tathagatas has pointed out the five skandhas
      as �the world�(LOKA), because they do not crumble, nor crumble away
      (lujyante, pralujyante). For the five skandhas have emptiness for own-being,
      and as devoid of own-being, emptiness can not crumble can not crumble or
      crumble away. It is in this sense that perfection of wisdom instructs the
      Tathagatas in this world. And as emptiness does not crumble, nor crumble
      away, so also the signless, the wishless, the unaffected, the unproduced,
      the non-existence and the realm of dharma.�

      That definition given by �The Buddha� (or not we we agree that this Mahayana
      scripture was not the words of Buddha himself) gives a wide range of meaning
      for the word LOKA.

      It is the five aggregates including the aspects of mind functioning, karma
      and consciousness. In the end it states that is NOT transitory and NOT dacay
      as is emptiness by nature...( in this case we can mentioned the
      interpretations of the four Buddhist tenes for this passage and use
      reasoning to grasp fully what is meant by that).

      But it seems that this last definition in some way includes all the
      categories of LOKAS not just in Buddhism but in Hinduism an Jain views as
      mentioned before.

      As for the definition given by the dun dkar tshig mdzod chen mo:

      snod 'jig pa'i chos can dang bcud brten pa'i gang zag gnyis so/de yang snod
      gling bzhi gling phran la sogs pa sems can rnams gnas pa'i snod lta bu yin
      pas snod kyi 'jig rten dang/ de la brten pa'i khams gsum gyi sems can rnams
      ni nang bcud lta bu yin pas bcud kyi 'jig rten zhes bya'o/

      �The two, the container world(bhajanalokah) and the persons that are
      supported as the contents. Furthermore the container of the four continents
      and its subcontinents etc being the dwelling container of all sentient
      beings are called the Loka�s container. In this, the sentient beings of the
      three worlds being the internal contents are called the �Loka�s contents.�

      So also here we could understand as for the word Loka not just the container
      of sentient beings but both container and contents wich would agree with the
      defitinion given by the Buddha in the Prajnaparamita text mentioned before
      as the skandhas.

      All this made a little confused and I could not find any more information

      Any help in clarifying this would be very kind.

      Thanks since now.


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    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear friends, I like to thank everyone who have responded to all questions posted for this group reading. Thank you for making the study easier. I am glad to
      Message 51 of 51 , Aug 4, 2007
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        Dear friends,

        I like to thank everyone who have responded to all questions posted
        for this group reading. Thank you for making the study easier. I am
        glad to have completed the first 16 lessons this time, and hope to
        continue with the book later next year.

        Yong Peng.
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