Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa

Expand Messages
  • keren_arbel
    Hello everyone, Sorry for bothering you again and again, but I don t have anyone else to ask... In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa di.t.the: seen in
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 11, 2007
      Hello everyone,

      Sorry for bothering you again and again, but I don't have anyone else to
      ask...

      In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa

      di.t.the: seen in locative
      vaaditaa: speaker (Nominative sg of vaaditar)

      Bhikkhu Bodhi translate like this: "Telling the seen as it is seen".

      I wanted to ask if a locative can be transles as "as"?
      It seems that the accurate trandlation should be:
      "in case of the seen, he is a spkeaker about the seen" or "concerning
      the seen, he speak about the seen".

      However, in these translations there is no reference to speaking about
      the seen, as it is seen, which makes this sentence different. What do
      you think?

      Thanks,
      Have a wonderful day,
      Keren [:D]



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Piya Tan
      Keren, I think this idiom is also found in the Satipatthana Suttas, for example: kaaye kaayaanupassii ...pe... (contemplating the body in the body, etc) This
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 12, 2007
        Keren,

        I think this idiom is also found in the Satipatthana Suttas, for example:

        kaaye kaayaanupassii ...pe... (contemplating the body in the body, etc)

        This is a literal translation. Idiomatically, we can render this as:

        "Contemplating the body as the body..."

        I have written a bit about (Dharma aspect, not so much Pali grammar) in
        *the Satipatthana Suttas. (Introduction 3.7a)*
        See this at http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com
        under "Majjhima Nikaya"

        Piya


        On 12 Apr 2007 02:50:10 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hello everyone,
        >
        > Sorry for bothering you again and again, but I don't have anyone else to
        > ask...
        >
        > In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa
        >
        > di.t.the: seen in locative
        > vaaditaa: speaker (Nominative sg of vaaditar)
        >
        > Bhikkhu Bodhi translate like this: "Telling the seen as it is seen".
        >
        > I wanted to ask if a locative can be transles as "as"?
        > It seems that the accurate trandlation should be:
        > "in case of the seen, he is a spkeaker about the seen" or "concerning
        > the seen, he speak about the seen".
        >
        > However, in these translations there is no reference to speaking about
        > the seen, as it is seen, which makes this sentence different. What do
        > you think?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Have a wonderful day,
        > Keren [:D]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • keren_arbel
        Dear Piya, Thanks, but it seems to me that Contemplating the body as the body, is not the same as saying contemplating the body in the body . But, is Locative
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 12, 2007
          Dear Piya,

          Thanks, but it seems to me that Contemplating the body as the body,
          is not the same as saying "contemplating the body in the body".
          But, is Locative can be taken as implying "as"?
          Keren.

          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Piya Tan" <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
          >
          > Keren,
          >
          > I think this idiom is also found in the Satipatthana Suttas, for
          example:
          >
          > kaaye kaayaanupassii ...pe... (contemplating the body in the body,
          etc)
          >
          > This is a literal translation. Idiomatically, we can render this as:
          >
          > "Contemplating the body as the body..."
          >
          > I have written a bit about (Dharma aspect, not so much Pali
          grammar) in
          > *the Satipatthana Suttas. (Introduction 3.7a)*
          > See this at http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com
          > under "Majjhima Nikaya"
          >
          > Piya
          >
          >
          > On 12 Apr 2007 02:50:10 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Hello everyone,
          > >
          > > Sorry for bothering you again and again, but I don't have anyone
          else to
          > > ask...
          > >
          > > In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa
          > >
          > > di.t.the: seen in locative
          > > vaaditaa: speaker (Nominative sg of vaaditar)
          > >
          > > Bhikkhu Bodhi translate like this: "Telling the seen as it is
          seen".
          > >
          > > I wanted to ask if a locative can be transles as "as"?
          > > It seems that the accurate trandlation should be:
          > > "in case of the seen, he is a spkeaker about the seen"
          or "concerning
          > > the seen, he speak about the seen".
          > >
          > > However, in these translations there is no reference to speaking
          about
          > > the seen, as it is seen, which makes this sentence different.
          What do
          > > you think?
          > >
          > > Thanks,
          > > Have a wonderful day,
          > > Keren [:D]
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Piya Tan
          Dear Keren, Interesting issue here, but it really depends on where your emphasis is. Are you in for purely Pali grammar, or Pal in the service of understanding
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 12, 2007
            Dear Keren,

            Interesting issue here, but it really depends on where your emphasis is.
            Are you in for purely Pali grammar, or Pal in the service of understanding
            the Dharma. Of course, most of them time, the two happily coincide, but
            there are occasions like this when the mettle of a translator or reader is
            tested.

            The answer lies in understanding the Malunkyaputta Teaching given in
            the Malunkyaputta Sutta (S 35.95).

            The translator or reader has now to decide how best to express it in
            English so that he (and others hopefully) will understand the correct
            import, based on various internal references like this.

            Piya Tan


            On 12 Apr 2007 15:41:47 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Piya,
            >
            > Thanks, but it seems to me that Contemplating the body as the body,
            > is not the same as saying "contemplating the body in the body".
            > But, is Locative can be taken as implying "as"?
            > Keren.
            >
            > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
            > <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Keren,
            > >
            > > I think this idiom is also found in the Satipatthana Suttas, for
            > example:
            > >
            > > kaaye kaayaanupassii ...pe... (contemplating the body in the body,
            > etc)
            > >
            > > This is a literal translation. Idiomatically, we can render this as:
            > >
            > > "Contemplating the body as the body..."
            > >
            > > I have written a bit about (Dharma aspect, not so much Pali
            > grammar) in
            > > *the Satipatthana Suttas. (Introduction 3.7a)*
            > > See this at http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com
            > > under "Majjhima Nikaya"
            > >
            > > Piya
            > >
            > >
            > > On 12 Apr 2007 02:50:10 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Hello everyone,
            > > >
            > > > Sorry for bothering you again and again, but I don't have anyone
            > else to
            > > > ask...
            > > >
            > > > In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa
            > > >
            > > > di.t.the: seen in locative
            > > > vaaditaa: speaker (Nominative sg of vaaditar)
            > > >
            > > > Bhikkhu Bodhi translate like this: "Telling the seen as it is
            > seen".
            > > >
            > > > I wanted to ask if a locative can be transles as "as"?
            > > > It seems that the accurate trandlation should be:
            > > > "in case of the seen, he is a spkeaker about the seen"
            > or "concerning
            > > > the seen, he speak about the seen".
            > > >
            > > > However, in these translations there is no reference to speaking
            > about
            > > > the seen, as it is seen, which makes this sentence different.
            > What do
            > > > you think?
            > > >
            > > > Thanks,
            > > > Have a wonderful day,
            > > > Keren [:D]
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • keren_arbel
            Dear Piya, My emphasis is the Pali in the service of understanding... but, sometimes when you read the Pali, it raises questions about the decisions of
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 12, 2007
              Dear Piya,

              My emphasis is the Pali in the service of understanding... but,
              sometimes when you read the Pali, it raises questions about the
              decisions of another translator. What we "understand" can be
              different than somebody else, and then, the Pali "grammar" can be the
              only way to understand propoerly.
              My first intuition was to see this sentence as bhikkhu Bodhi did
              (since this kind of phrasing is common in English translations of the
              Pali texts), but then I had some doubts, whether it is a correct
              translation. In the Sanskrit, the locative cannot be taken as "as" as
              well.
              Anyway, thanks for the attention and help,
              have a wonderful weekend,
              Keren.


              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Piya Tan" <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Keren,
              >
              > Interesting issue here, but it really depends on where your
              emphasis is.
              > Are you in for purely Pali grammar, or Pal in the service of
              understanding
              > the Dharma. Of course, most of them time, the two happily coincide,
              but
              > there are occasions like this when the mettle of a translator or
              reader is
              > tested.
              >
              > The answer lies in understanding the Malunkyaputta Teaching given in
              > the Malunkyaputta Sutta (S 35.95).
              >
              > The translator or reader has now to decide how best to express it in
              > English so that he (and others hopefully) will understand the
              correct
              > import, based on various internal references like this.
              >
              > Piya Tan
              >
              >
              > On 12 Apr 2007 15:41:47 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Piya,
              > >
              > > Thanks, but it seems to me that Contemplating the body as the
              body,
              > > is not the same as saying "contemplating the body in the body".
              > > But, is Locative can be taken as implying "as"?
              > > Keren.
              > >
              > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
              > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Keren,
              > > >
              > > > I think this idiom is also found in the Satipatthana Suttas, for
              > > example:
              > > >
              > > > kaaye kaayaanupassii ...pe... (contemplating the body in the
              body,
              > > etc)
              > > >
              > > > This is a literal translation. Idiomatically, we can render
              this as:
              > > >
              > > > "Contemplating the body as the body..."
              > > >
              > > > I have written a bit about (Dharma aspect, not so much Pali
              > > grammar) in
              > > > *the Satipatthana Suttas. (Introduction 3.7a)*
              > > > See this at http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com
              > > > under "Majjhima Nikaya"
              > > >
              > > > Piya
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > On 12 Apr 2007 02:50:10 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Hello everyone,
              > > > >
              > > > > Sorry for bothering you again and again, but I don't have
              anyone
              > > else to
              > > > > ask...
              > > > >
              > > > > In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa
              > > > >
              > > > > di.t.the: seen in locative
              > > > > vaaditaa: speaker (Nominative sg of vaaditar)
              > > > >
              > > > > Bhikkhu Bodhi translate like this: "Telling the seen as it is
              > > seen".
              > > > >
              > > > > I wanted to ask if a locative can be transles as "as"?
              > > > > It seems that the accurate trandlation should be:
              > > > > "in case of the seen, he is a spkeaker about the seen"
              > > or "concerning
              > > > > the seen, he speak about the seen".
              > > > >
              > > > > However, in these translations there is no reference to
              speaking
              > > about
              > > > > the seen, as it is seen, which makes this sentence different.
              > > What do
              > > > > you think?
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks,
              > > > > Have a wonderful day,
              > > > > Keren [:D]
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >


              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Piya Tan" <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Keren,
              >
              > Interesting issue here, but it really depends on where your
              emphasis is.
              > Are you in for purely Pali grammar, or Pal in the service of
              understanding
              > the Dharma. Of course, most of them time, the two happily coincide,
              but
              > there are occasions like this when the mettle of a translator or
              reader is
              > tested.
              >
              > The answer lies in understanding the Malunkyaputta Teaching given in
              > the Malunkyaputta Sutta (S 35.95).
              >
              > The translator or reader has now to decide how best to express it in
              > English so that he (and others hopefully) will understand the
              correct
              > import, based on various internal references like this.
              >
              > Piya Tan
              >
              >
              > On 12 Apr 2007 15:41:47 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Piya,
              > >
              > > Thanks, but it seems to me that Contemplating the body as the
              body,
              > > is not the same as saying "contemplating the body in the body".
              > > But, is Locative can be taken as implying "as"?
              > > Keren.
              > >
              > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
              > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Keren,
              > > >
              > > > I think this idiom is also found in the Satipatthana Suttas, for
              > > example:
              > > >
              > > > kaaye kaayaanupassii ...pe... (contemplating the body in the
              body,
              > > etc)
              > > >
              > > > This is a literal translation. Idiomatically, we can render
              this as:
              > > >
              > > > "Contemplating the body as the body..."
              > > >
              > > > I have written a bit about (Dharma aspect, not so much Pali
              > > grammar) in
              > > > *the Satipatthana Suttas. (Introduction 3.7a)*
              > > > See this at http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com
              > > > under "Majjhima Nikaya"
              > > >
              > > > Piya
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > On 12 Apr 2007 02:50:10 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Hello everyone,
              > > > >
              > > > > Sorry for bothering you again and again, but I don't have
              anyone
              > > else to
              > > > > ask...
              > > > >
              > > > > In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa
              > > > >
              > > > > di.t.the: seen in locative
              > > > > vaaditaa: speaker (Nominative sg of vaaditar)
              > > > >
              > > > > Bhikkhu Bodhi translate like this: "Telling the seen as it is
              > > seen".
              > > > >
              > > > > I wanted to ask if a locative can be transles as "as"?
              > > > > It seems that the accurate trandlation should be:
              > > > > "in case of the seen, he is a spkeaker about the seen"
              > > or "concerning
              > > > > the seen, he speak about the seen".
              > > > >
              > > > > However, in these translations there is no reference to
              speaking
              > > about
              > > > > the seen, as it is seen, which makes this sentence different.
              > > What do
              > > > > you think?
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks,
              > > > > Have a wonderful day,
              > > > > Keren [:D]
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Ole Holten Pind
              The monk contemplates the body as body, not in the body, which would lead to absurd conclusions. The locative has this particular function in this and many
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 13, 2007
                The monk contemplates the body as body, not in the body, which would lead to
                absurd conclusions. The locative has this particular function in this and
                many other cases.

                Ole Holten Pind

                _____

                Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Piya Tan
                Sendt: 13. april 2007 03:09
                Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                Emne: Re: [Pali] Re: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa



                Dear Keren,

                Interesting issue here, but it really depends on where your emphasis is.
                Are you in for purely Pali grammar, or Pal in the service of understanding
                the Dharma. Of course, most of them time, the two happily coincide, but
                there are occasions like this when the mettle of a translator or reader is
                tested.

                The answer lies in understanding the Malunkyaputta Teaching given in
                the Malunkyaputta Sutta (S 35.95).

                The translator or reader has now to decide how best to express it in
                English so that he (and others hopefully) will understand the correct
                import, based on various internal references like this.

                Piya Tan

                On 12 Apr 2007 15:41:47 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@
                <mailto:keren_arbel%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Piya,
                >
                > Thanks, but it seems to me that Contemplating the body as the body,
                > is not the same as saying "contemplating the body in the body".
                > But, is Locative can be taken as implying "as"?
                > Keren.
                >
                > --- In Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
                <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
                > <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Keren,
                > >
                > > I think this idiom is also found in the Satipatthana Suttas, for
                > example:
                > >
                > > kaaye kaayaanupassii ...pe... (contemplating the body in the body,
                > etc)
                > >
                > > This is a literal translation. Idiomatically, we can render this as:
                > >
                > > "Contemplating the body as the body..."
                > >
                > > I have written a bit about (Dharma aspect, not so much Pali
                > grammar) in
                > > *the Satipatthana Suttas. (Introduction 3.7a)*
                > > See this at http://dharmafarer. <http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com>
                googlepages.com
                > > under "Majjhima Nikaya"
                > >
                > > Piya
                > >
                > >
                > > On 12 Apr 2007 02:50:10 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Hello everyone,
                > > >
                > > > Sorry for bothering you again and again, but I don't have anyone
                > else to
                > > > ask...
                > > >
                > > > In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa
                > > >
                > > > di.t.the: seen in locative
                > > > vaaditaa: speaker (Nominative sg of vaaditar)
                > > >
                > > > Bhikkhu Bodhi translate like this: "Telling the seen as it is
                > seen".
                > > >
                > > > I wanted to ask if a locative can be transles as "as"?
                > > > It seems that the accurate trandlation should be:
                > > > "in case of the seen, he is a spkeaker about the seen"
                > or "concerning
                > > > the seen, he speak about the seen".
                > > >
                > > > However, in these translations there is no reference to speaking
                > about
                > > > the seen, as it is seen, which makes this sentence different.
                > What do
                > > > you think?
                > > >
                > > > Thanks,
                > > > Have a wonderful day,
                > > > Keren [:D]
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ole Holten Pind
                Bikkhu Bodhi´s translation of loc. di.t.the is ok. vaaditaa
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 13, 2007
                  Bikkhu Bodhi´s translation of loc. di.t.the is ok. vaaditaa < vaadin ?
                  abstract suffix taa.
                  Ole Holten Pind


                  _____

                  Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
                  keren_arbel
                  Sendt: 12. april 2007 11:50
                  Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                  Emne: [Pali] di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa




                  Hello everyone,

                  Sorry for bothering you again and again, but I don't have anyone else to
                  ask...

                  In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa

                  di.t.the: seen in locative
                  vaaditaa: speaker (Nominative sg of vaaditar)

                  Bhikkhu Bodhi translate like this: "Telling the seen as it is seen".

                  I wanted to ask if a locative can be transles as "as"?
                  It seems that the accurate trandlation should be:
                  "in case of the seen, he is a spkeaker about the seen" or "concerning
                  the seen, he speak about the seen".

                  However, in these translations there is no reference to speaking about
                  the seen, as it is seen, which makes this sentence different. What do
                  you think?

                  Thanks,
                  Have a wonderful day,
                  Keren [:D]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • P G Dave
                  Dear Karen, Keeping language and grammar apart for a moment, I was just wondering how as a meditator you would differentiate in practice, contemplating the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 13, 2007
                    Dear Karen,

                    Keeping language and grammar apart for a moment, I was just wondering how as
                    a meditator you would differentiate in practice, "contemplating the body as
                    the body" AND "contemplating the body in the body" and attempt one or the
                    other if the two were indeed different in practice.

                    thanks.
                    metta,
                    P G Dave

                    _________________________________________________________

                    On 4/13/07, Piya Tan <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear Keren,
                    >
                    > Interesting issue here, but it really depends on where your emphasis is.
                    > Are you in for purely Pali grammar, or Pal in the service of understanding
                    > the Dharma. Of course, most of them time, the two happily coincide, but
                    > there are occasions like this when the mettle of a translator or reader is
                    > tested.
                    >
                    > The answer lies in understanding the Malunkyaputta Teaching given in
                    > the Malunkyaputta Sutta (S 35.95).
                    >
                    > The translator or reader has now to decide how best to express it in
                    > English so that he (and others hopefully) will understand the correct
                    > import, based on various internal references like this.
                    >
                    > Piya Tan
                    >
                    > On 12 Apr 2007 15:41:47 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@...<keren_arbel%40hotmail.com>>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Dear Piya,
                    > >
                    > > Thanks, but it seems to me that Contemplating the body as the body,
                    > > is not the same as saying "contemplating the body in the body".
                    > > But, is Locative can be taken as implying "as"?
                    > > Keren.
                    > >
                    > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
                    > > <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Keren,
                    > > >
                    > > > I think this idiom is also found in the Satipatthana Suttas, for
                    > > example:
                    > > >
                    > > > kaaye kaayaanupassii ...pe... (contemplating the body in the body,
                    > > etc)
                    > > >
                    > > > This is a literal translation. Idiomatically, we can render this as:
                    > > >
                    > > > "Contemplating the body as the body..."
                    > > >
                    > > > I have written a bit about (Dharma aspect, not so much Pali
                    > > grammar) in
                    > > > *the Satipatthana Suttas. (Introduction 3.7a)*
                    > > > See this at http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com
                    > > > under "Majjhima Nikaya"
                    > > >
                    > > > Piya
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > On 12 Apr 2007 02:50:10 -0700, keren_arbel <keren_arbel@...> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hello everyone,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Sorry for bothering you again and again, but I don't have anyone
                    > > else to
                    > > > > ask...
                    > > > >
                    > > > > In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa
                    > > > >
                    > > > > di.t.the: seen in locative
                    > > > > vaaditaa: speaker (Nominative sg of vaaditar)
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Bhikkhu Bodhi translate like this: "Telling the seen as it is
                    > > seen".
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I wanted to ask if a locative can be transles as "as"?
                    > > > > It seems that the accurate trandlation should be:
                    > > > > "in case of the seen, he is a spkeaker about the seen"
                    > > or "concerning
                    > > > > the seen, he speak about the seen".
                    > > > >
                    > > > > However, in these translations there is no reference to speaking
                    > > about
                    > > > > the seen, as it is seen, which makes this sentence different.
                    > > What do
                    > > > > you think?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thanks,
                    > > > > Have a wonderful day,
                    > > > > Keren [:D]
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Kumaara Bhikkhu
                    Good point, Dave. I think it would be difficult to imagine how we could contemplate the body in the body . To make it more literal and still be meaningful,
                    Message 9 of 11 , Apr 15, 2007
                      Good point, Dave.

                      I think it would be difficult to imagine how we could "contemplate the body in the body". To make it more literal and still be meaningful, how about "contemplating the body in terms of the body" or "contemplating the body in regard to the body"?


                      Btw, I think "contemplate" is a poor choice for "anupassati". What does "contemplate" mean in English? My dictionary (WordWeb) provides these definitions:
                      1. Look at thoughtfully; observe deep in thought
                      2. Consider as a possibility
                      3. Think intently and at length, as for spiritual purposes
                      4. Reflect deeply on a subject

                      Every meaning of "contemplate" carries the idea of 'thinking'. This is hardly what a satipatthana meditator is supposed to do.

                      Besides, the word "anupassati" does not carry the idea of thinking at all. Rather it means "repeated seeing", or "seeing again and again", which is what a meditator is supposed to do mentally.

                      Perhaps "observe" is a better choice. Quite a few meanings of the word do fit well with what meditators are supposed to do, e.g.
                      * Observe with care or pay close attention to
                      * Watch attentively
                      * Follow with the eyes or the mind
                      * Observe correctly or closely

                      I like "observe correctly". :-)

                      kb

                      P G Dave wrote thus at 03:06 AM 14-04-07:
                      >Dear Karen,
                      >
                      >Keeping language and grammar apart for a moment, I was just wondering how as
                      >a meditator you would differentiate in practice, "contemplating the body as
                      >the body" AND "contemplating the body in the body" and attempt one or the
                      >other if the two were indeed different in practice.
                      >
                      >thanks.
                      >metta,
                      >P G Dave
                    • Ong Yong Peng
                      Dear Keren, in Lesson 16 of Warder s Introduction to Pali, you may find some details of the locative case. In our recent translation exercise, we had the word
                      Message 10 of 11 , Apr 19, 2007
                        Dear Keren,

                        in Lesson 16 of Warder's Introduction to Pali, you may find some
                        details of the locative case.

                        In our recent translation exercise, we had the word
                        'di.t.thadhammika', which literally means "(adjective) bringing about
                        visible effects". It is possible that 'di.t.tha' has not been
                        vigorously considered in your citation, hence the confusion. So, it
                        may simply not be an issue of grammar, but that of semantics as well.

                        metta,
                        Yong Peng.


                        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, keren_arbel wrote:

                        In MN III.29-30: di.t.the di.t.thavaaditaa

                        di.t.the: seen in locative
                        vaaditaa: speaker (Nominative sg of vaaditar)
                      • keren_arbel
                        Thank you all for you thoughts. I appreciate it greatly. With Metta, Keren.
                        Message 11 of 11 , Apr 21, 2007
                          Thank you all for you thoughts. I appreciate it greatly.

                          With Metta,
                          Keren.
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.