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Re: Ekakkharakosa

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Diedrik, you may like to write to the Pali Study Group. The folks there may be able to help you. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/palistudy/ metta, Yong
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 8, 2007
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      Dear Diedrik,

      you may like to write to the Pali Study Group. The folks there may be
      able to help you.

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/palistudy/

      metta,
      Yong Peng.


      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, diedrik2000 wrote:

      I am new to this group and at the moment interested in a sixteenth
      century dictionary in Pali, called Ekakkharakosa. This is supposed to
      be a list of one-letter or one-syllable words.

      I have searched for more information on this topic, but cannot find
      any. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with this text and can
      explain to me what it is, and what it is about? Does it contain
      one-letter or one-syllable-words? How many of those are there in it?
      Why was it written and printed? What was it used for? It has been
      called famous by some sources, what does it make so?
    • Jim Anderson
      ... be ... Dear Yong Peng and Diedrik, The best way to contact the Pali Study Group is to click on the following link: http://ca.geocities.com/palistudy
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 10, 2007
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        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <pali.smith@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Diedrik,
        >
        > you may like to write to the Pali Study Group. The folks there may
        be
        > able to help you.
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/palistudy/
        >
        > metta,
        > Yong Peng.
        >

        Dear Yong Peng and Diedrik,

        The best way to contact the Pali Study Group is to click on the
        following link:

        http://ca.geocities.com/palistudy

        Non-members will probably find the other link inaccessible.

        Yong Peng, sorry for this belated response. I didn't have access to
        the Internet at the time you posted your message over a month ago and
        it wasn't until yesterday that I caught up with it. I was aware of
        Diedrik's fearlier message but didn't respond due to my lack of
        familiarity with the Ekakkharakosa text. About 25 years ago, I
        photocopied 8 pages of this small text of over 100 verses in the
        Devanagari script but didn't copy it all, unfortunately. The
        arrangement of the syllables is according to the Pali order of
        letters. What I have, runs from verse 13 (part of "a") to verse 117
        (part of "sa.m"). Most of the syllables are open (vowel or
        consonant+vowel). The syllables are often described as a verbal root,
        suffix, or prefix.

        For a sample of the text, here's verse 50 for "ti" and "tu":

        ti dhaatumhi paccaye sa.mkhyaaya ca pakittito //
        tukaaro paccaye 'vyaye pavattati yathaaraha.m // 50 //

        There is also a .tiikaa (commentary) that might shed more light on
        the reason(s) for composing such a work.

        Best wishes,
        Jim
      • Kumaara Bhikkhu
        Hi, everybody. I m back here to ask about a problem with CSCD. Has anyone of you encountered any problem with the Save to File feature? We didn t have the
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 10, 2007
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          Hi, everybody.

          I'm back here to ask about a problem with CSCD. Has anyone of you encountered any problem with the Save to File feature? We didn't have the problem earlier. It's hard for me to troubleshoot as the times I use it are far in between.

          For a long time, I (and my teacher too) have had trouble saving the text. It kept coming out seriously truncated. If it's in the middle of the "book", I could still manipulate it by extending my request way before and after what I want. Also I realised that the later part of the text can be revealed by removing some code in the RTF file on a text editor.

          However, when it comes to text in the beginning of the "book", I have no choice but to rely on Frank Snow's CDCDCONV.

          Now I'm motivated enough to ask around. :-)
          Anyway, does anyone know why this is happening or have any solution to this?

          kb
        • Ong Yong Peng
          Dear Jim, thank you for your reply. It is quite pleasant to learn of a Pali grammar in Devanagari script. Would you be able to give us a quick review of the
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 12, 2007
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            Dear Jim,

            thank you for your reply. It is quite pleasant to learn of a Pali
            grammar in Devanagari script.

            Would you be able to give us a quick review of the ancient Pali
            grammar materials. I know CSCD contains the following list:

            [Byaakara.na gantha-sa`ngaha : Collection of grammar texts]
            (byakarana, or vyakarana in Sanskrit, means grammar)
            . Kaccaayanabyaakara.na
            . Moggallaanabyaakara.na
            . Saddaniitippakara.na (padamaalaa)
            . Saddaniitippakara.na (dhaatumaalaa)
            . Padaruupasiddhi
            . Moggallaanapa~ncikaa
            . Payogasiddhipaa.tha
            . Vuttodayapaa.tha
            . Abhidhaanappadiipikaapaa.tha
            . Abhidhaanappadiipikaa.tiikaa
            . Subodhaala`nkaarapaa.tha
            . Subodhaala`nkaara.tiikaa
            . Baalaavataara ga.nthipadatthavinicchayasaara

            Abhidhaanappadiipikaapaa.tha, a book of synonyms?
            Baalaavataara, elementary grammar?

            metta,
            Yong Peng.


            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Jim Anderson wrote:

            I didn't have access to the Internet at the time you posted your
            message over a month ago and it wasn't until yesterday that I caught
            up with it. I was aware of Diedrik's fearlier message but didn't
            respond due to my lack of familiarity with the Ekakkharakosa text.
            About 25 years ago, I photocopied 8 pages of this small text of over
            100 verses in the Devanagari script but didn't copy it all,
            unfortunately. The arrangement of the syllables is according to the
            Pali order of letters. What I have, runs from verse 13 (part of "a")
            to verse 117 (part of "sa.m"). Most of the syllables are open (vowel
            or consonant+vowel). The syllables are often described as a verbal
            root, suffix, or prefix.
          • Jim Anderson
            ... Dear Yong Peng, I believe most modern Indian editions of Pali works are based on Sinhalese and Burmese sources. ... It is much too difficult for me to give
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 12, 2007
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              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <pali.smith@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Jim,
              >
              > thank you for your reply. It is quite pleasant to learn of a Pali
              > grammar in Devanagari script.

              Dear Yong Peng,

              I believe most modern Indian editions of Pali works are based on
              Sinhalese and Burmese sources.

              > Would you be able to give us a quick review of the ancient Pali
              > grammar materials. I know CSCD contains the following list:

              It is much too difficult for me to give a quick review without a lot
              of preparation and checking but I think I can manage a basic
              classification of the works you list from the CSCD so that you can at
              least get some idea of how they're related. I have also included the
              Ekakkharakosa under "Dictionaries". These works come under the
              philology section found in the bibliography of the Critical Pali
              Dictionary as follows:

              5. Philology
              5.1 - 5.3 Grammar.
              5.4 The 14 minor texts.
              5.5 Roots.
              5.6 Dictionaries.
              5.7 Metrics.
              5.8 Rhetoric.

              The works you list from the CSCD can be placed as follows:
              5. Philology
              5.1 - 5.3 Grammar.
              5.1 Kaccaayanabyaakara.na
              5.1,4 Padaruupasiddhi
              5.1,5 Baalaavataara ga.nthipadatthavinicchayasaara (?)
              5.2 Saddaniiti [This work consists of 3 volumes: Padamaalaa,
              Dhaatumaalaa, and Suttamaalaa; the last one is not included in
              CSCD ver. 3]
              5.3 Moggallaanabyaakara.na
              5.3,111 Moggallaanapa~ncikaa-.tiikaa
              5.3,5 Payogasiddhipaa.tha
              5.6 Dictionaries.
              5.6.1 Abhidhaanappadiipikaapaa.tha
              5.6.1,2 Abhidhaanappadiipikaa.tiikaa (Catura"ngabala)
              5.6.2 Ekakkharakosa
              5.7 Metrics.
              5.7.1 Vuttodayapaa.tha
              5.8 Rhetoric.
              5.8,1 Subodhaala`nkaarapaa.tha
              5.8.1,1(?) Subodhaala`nkaara.tiikaa

              > [Byaakara.na gantha-sa`ngaha : Collection of grammar texts]
              > (byakarana, or vyakarana in Sanskrit, means grammar)

              It can also be "vyaakara.na" in Pali.

              > . Kaccaayanabyaakara.na
              > . Moggallaanabyaakara.na
              > . Saddaniitippakara.na (padamaalaa)
              > . Saddaniitippakara.na (dhaatumaalaa)
              > . Padaruupasiddhi
              > . Moggallaanapa~ncikaa
              > . Payogasiddhipaa.tha
              > . Vuttodayapaa.tha
              > . Abhidhaanappadiipikaapaa.tha
              > . Abhidhaanappadiipikaa.tiikaa
              > . Subodhaala`nkaarapaa.tha
              > . Subodhaala`nkaara.tiikaa
              > . Baalaavataara ga.nthipadatthavinicchayasaara
              >
              > Abhidhaanappadiipikaapaa.tha, a book of synonyms?

              Yes, and homonyms too. It's like a thesaurus but all in verses. Very
              useful.

              > Baalaavataara, elementary grammar?

              More or less. I don't think it is an easy grammar to digest without a
              lot of help from a skilful Pali teacher. Perhaps it is intended as a
              textbook for those teaching grammar to young monks.

              Best wishes,
              Jim
            • Ong Yong Peng
              Dear Jim, thanks again. Of the grammar texts, which would be a good one to start with? metta, Yong Peng. ... The works you list from the CSCD can be placed as
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 13, 2007
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                Dear Jim,

                thanks again. Of the grammar texts, which would be a good one to
                start with?

                metta,
                Yong Peng.


                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Jim Anderson wrote:

                The works you list from the CSCD can be placed as follows:
                5. Philology
                5.1 - 5.3 Grammar.
                5.1 Kaccaayanabyaakara.na
                5.1,4 Padaruupasiddhi
                5.1,5 Baalaavataara ga.nthipadatthavinicchayasaara (?)
                5.2 Saddaniiti [This work consists of 3 volumes: Padamaalaa,
                Dhaatumaalaa, and Suttamaalaa; the last one is not included in
                CSCD ver. 3]
                5.3 Moggallaanabyaakara.na
                5.3,111 Moggallaanapa~ncikaa-.tiikaa
                5.3,5 Payogasiddhipaa.tha
              • Jim Anderson
                ... I would personally recommend the Kaccaayanabyaakara.na as a good one to start with. It s the oldest extant Pali grammar and there are quite a few
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 13, 2007
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                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <pali.smith@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Jim,
                  >
                  > thanks again. Of the grammar texts, which would be a good one to
                  > start with?
                  >
                  > metta,
                  > Yong Peng.

                  I would personally recommend the Kaccaayanabyaakara.na as a good one
                  to start with. It's the oldest extant Pali grammar and there are
                  quite a few commenataries written on it. The Saddaniiti is also very
                  good (the one that Warder refers to as his authority) and H. Smith's
                  edition does often come in handy as a reference manual. I hope to
                  continue on with the Kaccayana studies on my mailing list. I just
                  need to get back into it. :)

                  Best wishes,
                  Jim
                • Ong Yong Peng
                  Dear Jim, thanks. The SLTP has also released the following in electronic version: . [Grammar] . . Baalaavataara [CPD class 5.1.5] . Kaccaayana Dhaatuma~njuusaa
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 15, 2007
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                    Dear Jim,

                    thanks. The SLTP has also released the following in electronic version:

                    . [Grammar] .
                    . Baalaavataara [CPD class 5.1.5]
                    . Kaccaayana Dhaatuma~njuusaa (incomplete)
                    . Dhaatupaa.tha Vilaasiniya [CPD class 5.5.1]
                    . Kaccaayanavyaakara.na
                    . Moggallaayanavyaakara.na
                    . Moggallaana Vuttivivara.napa~ncikaa
                    . Padama~njarii
                    . Padasaadhana
                    . Mahaaruupasiddhi [CPD class 5.1.4]
                    . Saddabindu pakara.na [CPD class 5.4.5]
                    . Vaakyamaalaava
                    . [Misc:Dictionary] .
                    . Abhidhaanappadiipikaa [CPD class 5.6.1]
                    . [Misc:Rhetoric] .
                    . Subodhaala`nkaara [CPD class 5.8.1]

                    Both the CSCD and SLTP have Kaccaayanabyaakara.na readily available to
                    the public, while PTS has Dr Ole Pind and Eisel Mazard currently
                    working on two editions of it.

                    As for Saddaniiti, CSCD only contains the first two of its three
                    parts. So, the PTS version is probably the only complete version
                    easily available in Roman script.

                    metta,
                    Yong Peng.


                    --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Jim Anderson wrote:

                    > Of the grammar texts, which would be a good one to start with?

                    I would personally recommend the Kaccaayanabyaakara.na as a good one
                    to start with. It's the oldest extant Pali grammar and there are quite
                    a few commenataries written on it. The Saddaniiti is also very good
                    (the one that Warder refers to as his authority) and H. Smith's
                    edition does often come in handy as a reference manual.
                  • Jim Anderson
                    ... version: Dear Yong Peng, The CSCD also has Ledi Sayadaw s large modern Pali grammar called the Niruttidiipanii which is based on the
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 15, 2007
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                      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <pali.smith@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear Jim,
                      >
                      > thanks. The SLTP has also released the following in electronic
                      version:

                      Dear Yong Peng,

                      The CSCD also has Ledi Sayadaw's large modern Pali grammar called the
                      Niruttidiipanii which is based on the Moggallaanabyaakara.na. I had a
                      hard copy of both texts mailed to me from Myanmar last summer.

                      > . Mahaaruupasiddhi [CPD class 5.1.4]

                      It should be noted that the Ruupasiddhi.tiikaa is included at the
                      back of the above in the SLTP collection.

                      >
                      > Both the CSCD and SLTP have Kaccaayanabyaakara.na readily available
                      to
                      > the public, while PTS has Dr Ole Pind and Eisel Mazard currently
                      > working on two editions of it.

                      One major problem with the readily available Pali grammatical etexts
                      is that they generally contain a lot of typos making them less
                      reliable than their originals in printed books. The latter would also
                      include footnotes, tables, and indexes not found in the etext
                      versions.

                      Acquiring fluency in Pali is certainly no easy task. It is said by
                      Patanjali in his Mahabhashya that one of the benefits of mastering
                      (Sanskrit) vyaakara.na is that it will make it easy to read fluently
                      or something to that effect. I think the same applies to learning
                      Pali vyaakara.na and its application to Pali passages in the
                      Tipitaka. I have to confess that after more than 30 years I'm still
                      far from having any fluency in Pali. It is only in the last few years
                      that I've come to realize how important it is to learn a traditional
                      Pali grammar in a thorough ans systematic manner.

                      Best wishes,
                      Jim
                    • Ong Yong Peng
                      Dear Jim, thank you for your advice and information. Many of us would be glad if you can restart Kaccaayanabyaakara.na in the Pali Study group. As this group
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 17, 2007
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                        Dear Jim,

                        thank you for your advice and information. Many of us would be glad if
                        you can restart Kaccaayanabyaakara.na in the Pali Study group. As this
                        group matures, we may also consider group discussion of these texts.

                        Mastering a language takes time, probably a lifetime, especially when
                        it is to ancient religious literature. So, I can understand your
                        'plight'. In fact, with all the exercises we have gone through, I hope
                        we can slowly develop a systematic approach to the learning of Pali.

                        With a bit of further research, I have compiled the information in
                        this discussions on a webpage: http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/texts.htm

                        As we have more information, I will expand the page's contents.

                        metta,
                        Yong Peng.


                        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Jim Anderson wrote:

                        The CSCD also has Ledi Sayadaw's large modern Pali grammar called the
                        Niruttidiipanii which is based on the Moggallaanabyaakara.na.

                        Acquiring fluency in Pali is certainly no easy task. It is said by
                        Patanjali in his Mahabhashya that one of the benefits of mastering
                        (Sanskrit) vyaakara.na is that it will make it easy to read fluently
                        or something to that effect. I think the same applies to learning Pali
                        vyaakara.na and its application to Pali passages in the Tipitaka. I
                        have to confess that after more than 30 years I'm still far from
                        having any fluency in Pali. It is only in the last few years that I've
                        come to realize how important it is to learn a traditional Pali
                        grammar in a thorough ans systematic manner.
                      • diedrik2000
                        Dear Jim, thanks very much for your information and your time! Diedrik
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 19, 2007
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                          Dear Jim,

                          thanks very much for your information and your time!

                          Diedrik



                          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <pali.smith@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear Jim,
                          >
                          > thank you for your reply. It is quite pleasant to learn of a Pali
                          > grammar in Devanagari script.
                          >
                          > Would you be able to give us a quick review of the ancient Pali
                          > grammar materials. I know CSCD contains the following list:
                          ....
                          > Yong Peng.
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Jim Anderson wrote:
                          >
                          > I didn't have access to the Internet at the time you posted your
                          > message over a month ago and it wasn't until yesterday that I caught
                          > up with it. I was aware of Diedrik's fearlier message but didn't
                          > respond due to my lack of familiarity with the Ekakkharakosa text.
                          > About 25 years ago, I photocopied 8 pages of this small text of over
                          > 100 verses in the Devanagari script but didn't copy it all,
                          > unfortunately. The arrangement of the syllables is according to the
                          > Pali order of letters. What I have, runs from verse 13 (part of "a")
                          > to verse 117 (part of "sa.m"). Most of the syllables are open (vowel
                          > or consonant+vowel). The syllables are often described as a verbal
                          > root, suffix, or prefix.
                          >
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